990's rule ...1290's suck

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mrossk
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby mrossk » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:26 am

Jmann- As a woodworker/furniture maker I can attest to the fact that although the router is a great tool- one that I use often- it is also the fastest way in the shop to absolutely ruin a perfectly good piece of wood! But your point is taken. Before I got really seriously in to woodworking, I loved the idea of hand tool work. But if you have to cut a dozen mortices in maple or oak, power tools win every time :)

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby DribbleDuke » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:30 am

jmann wrote:
DribbleDuke wrote:I was riding to work this morning and thinking about the meaning between digital and analog. I am not sure what the actual definition is but I could tell you which a watch is maybe. So I was wondering if a fly by wire bike would be considered digital and a bike controlling fueling through mechanical means is analog. With that said can this at all play into a certain unconnectedness to the machine or am I reaching here. When I ride-camp I take an old white gas stove that requires tinkering with to run. I have a new fangled Jet Boil stove that has piezo start and canister fuel pods. It is by all definitions much more efficient at bringing water to a boil yet the disconnect from not tickling the stove to life leaves me wanting for connectedness to the task. I leave the Jet Boil at home on the shelf. Could there be a realm of thought that the new machines leave a person want for reaching into the soul of a bike and the further into the digital universe the further from connection. Hell I am sure there are those out there that would not want to step past tickling their Amal's.
Wheelie in third does sound pretty inviting.


Comrade Dribble: I absolutely agree with your sentiments. To my mind half the fun of bike riding (and other riding) is "tickling their Amal's". I'm not going to buy into the digital versus analogue argument except to say that, for awhile digital IS the new analogue, - it's the way one reaches into the soul of the machine. If one understands the technology one can reach in and play. If one can't, one plays with an old bike where a jet Etc can be adjusted. In many ways it's better, in some ways it's not. It's a bit like using a router to cut a Mortise - the end is far better but it lacks the imperfections ...



This now brings to mind the new fascination with vinyl records. My son will rarely purchase new music on anything other than vinyl. I was an early enter into the compact disc direction. So early that the cheapest player at that time was $800.00. This was more than three weeks of gross pay income. At that time all music was analog crushed into digital format. Along came Dire Straights Brothers in Arms, the first digitally recorded C.D. added to my collection. It was by far the best, most crisp sound I had ever heard. It may just be that the disconnect that leaves me want for easier to understand devices is a direct relation to the understanding of how things work. This may too be why this leap into the motion relays controlling rider inputs or should I say modifying poor rider inputs to save them from themselves is a harder pill to swallow from independently thinking minds. I learned rain mode waaaaay back when after a trip across wet tarmac. :shock: :oops:

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby twitte » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:42 am

I am sure the 1290 is a excellent bike that is better in the 990 in almost all measurable area's (except weight). My only concern with the 1290 is, will it be as much fun to ride on the street as my 990? Usually with the 990 I am using half throttle and shift around 6K, so with the 1290 I will be using 1/4 throttle and shift around 5k? My license doesn't need anymore points at the moment either..

BTW, how does the 1290 flick into tight turns compared to the 990, the same?

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby Gimlet » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:40 pm

The real crazy power comes in with the 1290 at about 7k. If you're holding half throttle or above when the needle swings through this point the front wheel will come up in the first four gears. It'll clutch up or float off the slightest bump in fifth.
I would say the 1290 drops into turns slightly faster than a 990. Maybe its the wide bars or a higher centre of gravity but tips in with no effort at all. I love it on back roads. Its heavier (but not much) but its certainly very flickable. There can't be a 1300cc bike that's more nimble.
I went on a mixed rideout recently which was a friendly social not a speed fest and I spent most of the day in fourth, which gives you a searing acceleration if you want it and easy bottom end grunt. I found it noticeably more tractable and gruntier low-down after having the Akra Evo system fitted and the remap.
Personally, I think its smoother and sharper with the MTC switched off. Unless You're the sort of rider who has come to depend on an electronic safety net, I don't think the 1290 needs its rider aids. In which case, get the dongle, switch off, leave off and enjoy.

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby Ian » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:59 am

I havent ridden a 990, nor do I care if it's better, I'm pretty confident in my own opinions of the bikes I own. But I have to say, to those saying the 990 can hang with the 1290, you either are dealing with very poor 1290 riders, or they are in the rain setting. I can not even fathom a motorcycle having more bottom end than the 1290 has. I have owned many powerful and fast motorcycles in my life, 2001 R1 jetted to 143rwhp, carbed CBR110XX, FI CBR1100XX, BMW K1300S, Aprilia RSV Factory, the superduke 1290 is just way different, ie way more insane. There is no way, no matter what the weight of the 990 is that it can keep up with the 1290, period.

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby Ian » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:03 am

Gimlet wrote:The real crazy power comes in with the 1290 at about 7k. If you're holding half throttle or above when the needle swings through this point the front wheel will come up in the first four gears. It'll clutch up or float off the slightest bump in fifth.
I would say the 1290 drops into turns slightly faster than a 990. Maybe its the wide bars or a higher centre of gravity but tips in with no effort at all. I love it on back roads. Its heavier (but not much) but its certainly very flickable. There can't be a 1300cc bike that's more nimble.
I went on a mixed rideout recently which was a friendly social not a speed fest and I spent most of the day in fourth, which gives you a searing acceleration if you want it and easy bottom end grunt. I found it noticeably more tractable and gruntier low-down after having the Akra Evo system fitted and the remap.
Personally, I think its smoother and sharper with the MTC switched off. Unless You're the sort of rider who has come to depend on an electronic safety net, I don't think the 1290 needs its rider aids. In which case, get the dongle, switch off, leave off and enjoy.

I would have guessed the full Akra system would have shifted the power higher up. I had it on order but the first summer the bike was released it was on back order, I didn't want to wait so I just did the slip on.

What does the dongle do?

I personally ride with all the aids off, but the bike scares me where nothing else I have owned has done that. I have gotten in tank slappers at 120 mph and accelerating because of how powerful it is. If I were younger and didn't have a clue, that would have put me down for sure. I wouldn't say it doesn't need it's aids, but without them you better have a clue how to manage a motorcycle.

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby desmo-kid » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:47 pm

Yes, I was surprised at the 1290's power. As I said, still owning two mapped / piped 990's, I did not think this would be that much more powerful. I"m not racing anymore, and for the street, I absolutely do not need or even wish for something more powerful than this.

Only in first and second would the 990 sometimes be a tiny bit of a rush when sweeping past 8k up to redline. This thing is a real rush in gears 1 through 4. The scenery starts rushing by fast.

Certainly there are faster bikes, the BMW S1000R is all that needs to be said. But anyone thinking a 990 will run like a 1290, well, I guess it's nice to be in love with your bike, and a lot of people live in denial. My viewpoint, there is ALWAYS something faster, I can handle that and admit it. Some can't handle it or admit it.

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby Aphex » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:47 pm

desmo-kid wrote:Yes, I was surprised at the 1290's power. As I said, still owning two mapped / piped 990's, I did not think this would be that much more powerful. I"m not racing anymore, and for the street, I absolutely do not need or even wish for something more powerful than this.

Only in first and second would the 990 sometimes be a tiny bit of a rush when sweeping past 8k up to redline. This thing is a real rush in gears 1 through 4. The scenery starts rushing by fast.

Certainly there are faster bikes, the BMW S1000R is all that needs to be said. But anyone thinking a 990 will run like a 1290, well, I guess it's nice to be in love with your bike, and a lot of people live in denial. My viewpoint, there is ALWAYS something faster, I can handle that and admit it. Some can't handle it or admit it.



Any monkey and crank the throttle in 1 through 4 on a straight. :roll:

But can you ride the 1290 as fast without the nanny electronics on a track or a canyon? :wink:
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby SpeedyR » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:25 pm

so same track conditions, same setup (i.e. stock or modded but similar setup), and same rider you think the 1290 would loose on twisty road or track?

just curious to hear what is so bad handling about the 1290. I haven't had mine on the track yet and the suspension feels pretty "wallowy" for me, but I haven't spun any adjusters yet just been getting a feel for the bike.

it's not just about hp, my lap times on some tight tracks were pretty similar between my race prepped SV and my stock CBR1000rr as you couldn't use the power of the CBR and the SV was well set up and worked great on tight tracks. but those are also two very different setups. I'm interested to hear where the 1290 has the disadvantage to the 990. I agree that if you have a well set up 990 that there's probably not enough of a performance advantage to "upgrade" to a newer model. For me the advantage of having the option to have electronic aids was a deciding factor. I can turn them off when I want (and 90% of the time I ride it the MTS is off) but if it's raining and I have to ride a few hundred miles for whatever reason, being able to have some electronic intervention could be a big bonus.

there's always a faster bike and always a faster rider.

but either way, as long as you are on two wheels, enjoy what you ride, and actually get out and put some miles/km on your ride, it's all good. I still miss my Hawks when I do track days. :D
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby Aphex » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:29 pm

I'm just taking the piss now.


But the bike is only 20% of the equation when it comes to riding :mrgreen:

I know a 1290 vs a 990 would be like Harambe vs a child.


Plus this is the most active thread so gotta keep it alive.

I hate signing in everyday, hitting View new posts and getting zero results.
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby SpeedyR » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:45 pm

Aphex wrote:I'm just taking the piss now.
Plus this is the most active thread so gotta keep it alive.
I hate signing in everyday, hitting View new posts and getting zero results.

ditto. ;) but it is always fun to hear other sides of the argument.. :)
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby mzungu » Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:45 pm

The 990 does look better, no doubt there. 1290 looks like a warthog

I'll not sell my 990, perfect hooligan toy, and light enough to pick up when I drop the fooking thing
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby BrandonH » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:59 pm

mzungu wrote:The 990 does look better, no doubt there. 1290 looks like a warthog

I'll not sell my 990, perfect hooligan toy, and light enough to pick up when I drop the fooking thing


To each his own. Just my $.02, but I think the 990 looks like its old and outdated.

This pic is what made me want mine in the first place. Pure Sexiness!!!!


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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby murphc13 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:43 pm

This thread is fookin retarded!!!

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby Gimlet » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:01 pm

Ian wrote:
Gimlet wrote:The real crazy power comes in with the 1290 at about 7k. If you're holding half throttle or above when the needle swings through this point the front wheel will come up in the first four gears. It'll clutch up or float off the slightest bump in fifth.
I would say the 1290 drops into turns slightly faster than a 990. Maybe its the wide bars or a higher centre of gravity but tips in with no effort at all. I love it on back roads. Its heavier (but not much) but its certainly very flickable. There can't be a 1300cc bike that's more nimble.
I went on a mixed rideout recently which was a friendly social not a speed fest and I spent most of the day in fourth, which gives you a searing acceleration if you want it and easy bottom end grunt. I found it noticeably more tractable and gruntier low-down after having the Akra Evo system fitted and the remap.
Personally, I think its smoother and sharper with the MTC switched off. Unless You're the sort of rider who has come to depend on an electronic safety net, I don't think the 1290 needs its rider aids. In which case, get the dongle, switch off, leave off and enjoy.

I would have guessed the full Akra system would have shifted the power higher up. I had it on order but the first summer the bike was released it was on back order, I didn't want to wait so I just did the slip on.

What does the dongle do?

I personally ride with all the aids off, but the bike scares me where nothing else I have owned has done that. I have gotten in tank slappers at 120 mph and accelerating because of how powerful it is. If I were younger and didn't have a clue, that would have put me down for sure. I wouldn't say it doesn't need it's aids, but without them you better have a clue how to manage a motorcycle.


Can't say I felt that the EVO system had pushed the power further up. The most immediately noticeable change was a greatly fattened up bottom end and midrange and a quicker throttle. I also felt it ran a touch smoother everywhere.
The dongle stops the MTC defaulting to safe mode when the ignition is switched off and allows you to switch off the MTC and leave it off. It should be noted that even with the MTC off the ABS is unaffected and you can still switch between rider modes. Sport, Street and Rain feel exactly the same but there will be no MTC intervention.
The only cause for caution I would note when the MTC is switched off is markedly fiercer midrange acceleration. If you grab big fistfuls of power in the middle of the rev range with the MTC on it feathers the power. Without it, until you're used to it, things can happen more quickly than you're expecting, overtakes particularly. But you soon adjust.
I think the bike feels safer without the MTC because the feed back from the engine is so much better. Nothing is lost in translation and you can feel what your input is actually doing.

The danger with this technology is that there will soon be a generation of riders who have never ridden without traction control. They will be conditioned to depend on it whether they realise it or not and then it will be teaching them how not to ride.

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby Sarasota_Steve » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:20 pm

Gimlet wrote:
The danger with this technology is that there will soon be a generation of riders who have never ridden without traction control. They will be conditioned to depend on it whether they realise it or not and then it will be teaching them how not to ride.


That happened last year to Dani Pedrosa as he made contact with another rider and tore the wires for the TC near the rear axle, next corner he grabbed a hand full of throttle and threw it away. To much trust in electronics is going to make us dumb.
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby Gimlet » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:54 pm

I'm not much of a fan of ABS either. I hate pulsing levers and pedals and having the brakes released without my say-so. That said I do quite like the cornering ABS on the 1190 Adventure. Being able to brake hard mid-corner without snapping the bike upright, destabilising it and under-steering is a potential life-saver if something unexpected appears round a bend. On the other hand if it gets the electronic generation of riders to go into bends on the power unloading the front tyre and relying on being able to scrub off with the brakes if they over-cook it, again its teaching them exactly how not to ride.
Very much a double-edged sword. Maybe it should be mandatory to learn to ride on bikes without electronic rider aids.

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby bic_bicknell » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:29 pm

IMO It's going to get into a situation much like the manual/automatic driving standard currently in the UK. You can pass your test in a fully manual car and then be eligible to drive any vehicle but if you take your test in an automatic then you are only entitled to drive a vehicle of that level.

There is no way that new bikers who grow up with new bikes and only have experience riding assisted, electronically controlled, bikes will ever be competent on the old bikes where a level of skill and refinement need to be mastered to ride them safely. You can see, as has been mentioned previously on this thread, how even MotoGP level riders have problems when their rider aids are suddenly not available - because they just get used to the bike when it is helping them so much.

In a debate about safety and maximising the usable power and performance of modern super bikes then one can always argue for the benefits of traction control, ABS, anti-wheelie, etc. But in a debate about whether it's ultimately dumbing down the level of talent or skill required to master and utilise the performance of any given motorcycle then the answer is a profound yes.

You guys who love the rider aids are ultimately the cutting edge of the wedge in making motorcycling a sport accessible to everyone, whether they have truly earned the right or not.

Whether that's a good thing or not is debatable.

Personally when I see a guy in a £25K Ducati Panigale revving his engine at the start of the Nurburgring with all the rider aids on I just think......

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby The Gin Reaper » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:05 pm

bic_bicknell wrote:IMO It's going to get into a situation much like the manual/automatic driving standard currently in the UK. You can pass your test in a fully manual car and then be eligible to drive any vehicle but if you take your test in an automatic then you are only entitled to drive a vehicle of that level.

There is no way that new bikers who grow up with new bikes and only have experience riding assisted, electronically controlled, bikes will ever be competent on the old bikes where a level of skill and refinement need to be mastered to ride them safely. You can see, as has been mentioned previously on this thread, how even MotoGP level riders have problems when their rider aids are suddenly not available - because they just get used to the bike when it is helping them so much.

In a debate about safety and maximising the usable power and performance of modern super bikes then one can always argue for the benefits of traction control, ABS, anti-wheelie, etc. But in a debate about whether it's ultimately dumbing down the level of talent of skill required to master and utilise the performance of any given motorcycle then the answer is a profound yes.

You guys who love the rider aids are ultimately the cutting edge of the wedge in making motorcycling a sport accessible to everyone, whether they have truly earned the right or not.

Whether that's a good thing or not is debatable.

Personally when I see a guy in a £25K Ducati Panigale revving his engine at the start of the Nurburgring with all the rider aids on I just think......

wanker :lol:



all of that except i'm not as polite..... i just think ..... c*nt :D
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby LiferLance990 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:03 am

Tbh, I would buy a 1290 today if they came with the proto type exhaust. That can on the side depresses me.
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby AGRO! » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:20 am

Personally when I see a guy in a £25K Ducati Panigale revving his engine at the start of the Nurburgring with all the rider aids on I just think......

wanker :lol

LOL!

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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby wizzzard » Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:14 am

bic_bicknell wrote:


Personally when I see a guy in a £25K Ducati Panigale revving his engine at the start of the Nurburgring with all the rider aids on I just think......

wanker :lol:

:lol: :D
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby Sarasota_Steve » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:35 pm

I got a text from a buddy of mine who is a Forum member and rides a 1290.

Image

The word 'Ride' should have read 'Rode' I blame my fat fingers and the tiny iPhone keyboard.

And yes, BrandyH, he's not sure having bought the 1290 was a good idea. :twisted: The horror! :twisted:
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby BrandonH » Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:45 am

Sarasota_Steve wrote:I got a text from a buddy of mine who is a Forum member and rides a 1290.

Image

The word 'Ride' should have read 'Rode' I blame my fat fingers and the tiny iPhone keyboard.

And yes, BrandyH, he's not sure having bought the 1290 was a good idea. :twisted: The horror! :twisted:



I'm gonna get Apex on mine and he can relay to the rest of you hardcore 990 guys what it's really about. :mrgreen:
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Re: 990's rule ...1290's suck

Postby BrandonH » Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:45 am

BrandonH wrote:
Sarasota_Steve wrote:I got a text from a buddy of mine who is a Forum member and rides a 1290.

Image

The word 'Ride' should have read 'Rode' I blame my fat fingers and the tiny iPhone keyboard.

And yes, BrandyH, he's not sure having bought the 1290 was a good idea. :twisted: The horror! :twisted:



I'm gonna get Aphex on mine one of these weekends and he can relay to the rest of you hardcore 990 guys what it's really about. :mrgreen:
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