Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

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EDuke
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Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby EDuke » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:52 pm

Hi, I have a weird problem with my SD990 ’08 US edition and I need your help. I read many topics here but I guess I confused myself with each reading. Note: I'm don't have much knowledge about these stuff!

A few months ago, my bike started to misfire at slow speeds occasionally, though it needed 10 to 15 miles ride to start misfire. Two months after the initial sign, the problem suddenly escalated to each ride; occasional misfires to frequent all of sudden. Erratic engine idle added to it as well, ONLY with rides over 20-25 miles. Summary;

1. Misfires approximately after 15 miles ridding only at low speeds (fine with anything above 4000 rpm) after a COLD startup of coure.
Note: Happens faster in a street ride than in a freeway.
2. Erratic engine idle (Video link1 https://photos.app.goo.gl/W7RLLS36dSF1mpLD3 link2 https://photos.app.goo.gl/DpHDxVnJWFEa6Fc42) after 20-25 miles.
15 miles to misfire and 10 more miles for erratic idle.
3. Idle hangs above 2200 rpm in cold startups ONLY when #2 happens.
Sometime drops back to normal pretty quick and sometime takes a while, but it drops.

Therefore, I took my bike to a certified local dealership. First, they claimed ECU had a glitch, reset and re-programmed it. I didn’t make it home and it re-appeared right after I picked it up from the dealership, again after 15 miles! Took it back for further diagnostics/investigations. A week after, they couldn't find the problem so they contacted KTM for help. KTM, without hesitation, like a known issue advised them to replace the throttle body, and "IF" not then replace the ECU as well, AWESOME! That "IF NOT THEN" thingy really bothered me, so picked it up.

Back at home, I completely removed the throttle body, did some checks like connections and etc, some sort of TPS check (?), replaced spark plugs, checked stick coils, BGC and cleaned the throttle body. Put everything back together and MAGIC... no issues, not even a sign, very smooth, no misfires, no idle issue, just fantastic like good old days... but only lasted for 500 miles, and then the same problems! Pissed off, garaged it and didn’t touch it since then, just connected to TuneECU out of curiosity.

Passing by, I saw another SD990 in a big Yamaha dealership parking lot, waiting to be fixed. Asked about it and the dealership owner who was also taking care of it by himself was dealing with the exact same issues. He got almost same response from KTM too; to replace the throttle body. If I recall it correctly, he also mentioned something about a servo motor on throttle body which controls a rod, he believed that causes the issue. The servo motor can't be fixed, so the entire throttle body needs to be replaced. Some questions;

1. What made my bike to run so great for that 500 miles?
2. Do you think disabling 2nd butterflies can help me to identify the issue (removing and disabling with TuneECU)? I read something about it, somewhere, not my idea.
3. What about that servo motor which that gentleman mentioned?
4. Should I just replace the throttle body and stop wasting my time? The cost is matter of course.
5. What else can I do? Or if you encountered it before?

Also, I took these screenshots when I connected to TuneECU, you can see P0113 error. Can it be a potential culprit for the mess? Any thoughts about other readings? PLEASE HELP!

Image https://photos.app.goo.gl/IvJ8fVu0D2kRkHnh1
Image https://photos.app.goo.gl/kKEpBjS5GYgxuh023

Sorry for English though!

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Aphex
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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby Aphex » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:39 am

I had a P0113 error when I installed my rotty intake.

Check your connections and check them again.

However I don't think that is causing your issue.
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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby DribbleDuke » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:39 am

I would look at crank position sensor. The ran good then didn't seems to be pointing to a part that fails after a bit of time. My first thoughts were the coils and I would make sure they are well connected.
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EDuke
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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby EDuke » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:55 pm

Aphex wrote:I had a P0113 error when I installed my rotty intake.

Check your connections and check them again.

However I don't think that is causing your issue.


I'll check... with a second thought, you're right, it couldn't be my problem. The dealership should have caught it.

DribbleDuke wrote:I would look at crank position sensor. The ran good then didn't seems to be pointing to a part that fails after a bit of time. My first thoughts were the coils and I would make sure they are well connected.


Can you give me the crank position sensor part number to see where is located?

Edit: 60039034100 maybe?

I'm kinda sure of coils, my friend who is also a BMW technician point it too. We removed and checked them, should be well connected too, but I'll check again.
Last edited by EDuke on Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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No. 47
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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby No. 47 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:11 pm

^^ plus one of my ‘08 SDRs had a rear coil fault that only showed after a few miles and when very hot so don’t trust the TuneECU/manual check necessarily.
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EDuke
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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby EDuke » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:46 pm

No. 47 wrote:^^ plus one of my ‘08 SDRs had a rear coil fault that only showed after a few miles and when very hot so don’t trust the TuneECU/manual check necessarily.


Alright, coil will be first thing in my check/purchase list... but how you figured out it was the rear coil? Can a faulty coil works for 500 miles and then give me problem again?

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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby No. 47 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:21 pm

Possible I guess.........electrics/electrical components are a black art to me and, other than wiring/connectors, I have only ever solved these non-mechanical issues by swopping out parts.

Symptoms do sound like TB related issues though, having had to replace one myself, but be aware that, despite parts fiche indication otherwise, TPS and other components are available individually.

Should also add that I had similar symptoms with my original ‘08 vintage SDR, only solved by replacing ECU, but that was after, from memory, a lot of miles.
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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby EDuke » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:06 pm

Sounds like what KTM recommended, TB first if not then ECU, It is looking for $1800 cost at least, that's pretty depressing to be honest!

I'm not sure how much I can trust to a used TB, the difference is a lot but god knows what I'm gonna get. What's your opinion?

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No. 47
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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby No. 47 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:03 pm

Don’t assume the worst just yet - start with hooking up TuneECU, check TPS throttle position voltages, run components checks, sort out any faults indicated by error code(s) by checking respective wiring, connectors and finally component itself - rebuild maual gives you all you need re checking latter but, as I say, don’t necessarily assume normal check is OK as some components play up when hot - I usually swop out questionnable components ‘cos they’re mostly relatively cheap - more expensive things like coils that fail when hot are pretty easy to diagnose by cylinder sounds and the cylinder/exhaust header will be cooler than the one running OK - hit TuneECU reset adaption button and do the 15 min engine running reset.

Still no joy, clean the BGC again (as described repeatedly on here) and pack it with dialectric grease.

Still no joy, suggest you focus on TB related components first - air temp sensor, TPS and fully remove secondary flies including servo motors, etc and switch off flies in TuneECU also - would also add crank sensor to that list also.

Still no joy, check all wiring in main bundle around steering head, and below rear of fuel tank where it loops up and over frame into helow seat area,for partial damage to insulation, chaffing, etc.

Still no joy, find someone on here close to you who will lend you TB and ECU ie try before you buy if possible.

I’m assuming that you don’t have Power Commander...................
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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby DribbleDuke » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:06 am

It sounds like bad gas.
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EDuke
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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby EDuke » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:42 pm

Thanks for your suggestions @No.47; I'm going to do what you suggested one by one and report back. It will take some time from me, since I can only work on weekends (if nothing happens) and I'm sort of slow! So I would like you to check this thread time to time for further suggestions. Any help with crank sensor? Is it 60039034100? I need the part number to find it where is located.

I don't have Power Commander installed, the bike is pretty stock with FMF Apex exhaust. But, I do have a Power Commander if you have something in your mind, never been installed on this bike though.

An important update, I replaced both coils over the weekend, nothing changed. I was lucky that my local dealership had them in stock, otherwise had to wait for a week at least.

@DribbleDuke; gas is out of question, during this long period, I've filled it several times and different places.

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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby DribbleDuke » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:52 am

EDuke wrote:Thanks for your suggestions @No.47; I'm going to do what you suggested one by one and report back. It will take some time from me, since I can only work on weekends (if nothing happens) and I'm sort of slow! So I would like you to check this thread time to time for further suggestions. Any help with crank sensor? Is it 60039034100? I need the part number to find it where is located.

I don't have Power Commander installed, the bike is pretty stock with FMF Apex exhaust. But, I do have a Power Commander if you have something in your mind, never been installed on this bike though.

An important update, I replaced both coils over the weekend, nothing changed. I was lucky that my local dealership had them in stock, otherwise had to wait for a week at least.

@DribbleDuke; gas is out of question, during this long period, I've filled it several times and different places.

Yes that is the crank position sensor aka pulse generator. There is an ohms resistance test to see works correctly. You will have to investigate this on your own. I am guessing on this as I had another motorcycle that displayed your symptoms and it turned out to be this part. This was followed a year later by the ECU taking a crap. Funny both symptoms were the same but the costs were not. Good luck
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Re: Need help: Misfire and erratic engine idle SD990

Postby EDuke » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:05 pm

Thanks! I'm hoping for an easy test even though replacing it doesn't!

Now, I have hell of stuff to do!


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