800

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Willh
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800

Postby Willh » Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:22 pm

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/exclu ... aking-news

I'll take mine with 19" front 18" rear thank you :mrgreen:
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Re: 800

Postby Aphex » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:32 pm

Parallel twin :roll:
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Re: 800

Postby Nukem » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:37 pm

Aphex wrote:Parallel twin :roll:


Probably just needed the extra room for the supercharger right? :lol:

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Re: 800

Postby Willh » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:23 am

Maybe this will get KTM the podiums that the 990 couldn't in flat track :P
Tighter package, and no single sided swingarm. I don't need the 1290... :mrgreen:
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Re: 800

Postby SDNerd » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:49 am

Aphex wrote:Parallel twin :roll:


+1 and stuck together with holy cow dung in India. All about profit.

Parallel twins are great on two bikes: Triumphs (air cooled) and the 798 cc Rotax mill on the more intelligent choice of BMW "adventure" bikes. All others are about low cost to manufacture.

Why fooking bother with the KTM - just buy an FZ07. At least 40% less expensive, certainly more reliable and probably more fun too. Need orange? Rattle can an FZ.

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Re: 800

Postby Heipaal » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:04 am

The swingarm design with the ribs showing that kTm adopted is just plain ugly, i sincerely hope they redesign it with the ribs facing inwards so you just see what looks like a massive swingarm....

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Re: 800

Postby Willh » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:57 pm

SDNerd wrote:
Aphex wrote:Parallel twin :roll:


+1 and stuck together with holy cow dung in India. All about profit.

Parallel twins are great on two bikes: Triumphs (air cooled) and the 798 cc Rotax mill on the more intelligent choice of BMW "adventure" bikes. All others are about low cost to manufacture.

Why fooking bother with the KTM - just buy an FZ07. At least 40% less expensive, certainly more reliable and probably more fun too. Need orange? Rattle can an FZ.

What can I say, I'm a sucker for a parallel twin. I like bikes that are single cylinder short and narrow. Probably cause of my dirt-bike beginnings. I'd take the new Norton over the triumph, the Nuda with some 18-19" nobbies over the Beemer.

The Yammy is probably a good bike, I haven't been paying attention to the bike seen the last year or two being preoccupied with other things. Forgot that KTM was going to India. Are they making the 1290 there now?

My 990 is still going strong but I am starting to think that I need a smaller dirtier bike. My youngest doesn't agree and doesn't want to lose his pillion place.

Will take a ride to the new touratech dealer over here who is selling the Huskies, see if they have an old Nuda, check out the 501s and inquire about the new 700sm. Probably shouldn't do this...

Heipaal wrote:The swingarm design with the ribs showing that kTm adopted is just plain ugly, i sincerely hope they redesign it with the ribs facing inwards so you just see what looks like a massive swingarm....

Or better yet close it to keep it from getting full off crap and being something else to clean.
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Re: 800

Postby Aphex » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:17 pm

Not sure if this is the 800 or the 500, but it's not looking good.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/new-ktm-duke-800-spied

FWIW, I've heard some industry insiders talking about Stefan letting KTM slip more and more into Bajaj ownership and transferring the high performance segment to Husqvarna wher ehe has complete control and ownership.
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Re: 800

Postby scamb66 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:42 pm

Heipaal wrote:The swingarm design with the ribs showing that kTm adopted is just plain ugly, i sincerely hope they redesign it with the ribs facing inwards so you just see what looks like a massive swingarm....

Love the ribs in the swing arm, not so much the parallel twin, yaaawn.
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Re: 800

Postby SDNerd » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:34 pm

Aphex wrote:Not sure if this is the 800 or the 500, but it's not looking good.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/new-ktm-duke-800-spied

FWIW, I've heard some industry insiders talking about Stefan letting KTM slip more and more into Bajaj ownership and transferring the high performance segment to Husqvarna wher ehe has complete control and ownership.


In those photos - there appears to be 2 different bikes ...

I'm trying to care about KTM's newest products, but even the idea of a parallel twin product from them (or Rotax, or?), isn't of any interest to me. All about improving margins. In terms of low cost, nothing beats parallel twins among multicylinder engine designs.

For example, a work colleague just took delivery on a Husky 701 SM. He's a puny little fook that can barely swing a leg over it - so for him, it's probably like my riding an H2R. I rode it, and sure, it's fun - in the same way that 690 SMCs were, but nothing to get real excited about. Full of fluids, it ain't that light either. So much plastic on the thing - the side panels look (and probably act) like sails, and the subframe is made of PA ("Nylon"). I'm sure that's going to work out well. At least it's his $13K (for a single!), not mine.

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Re: 800

Postby Willh » Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:37 pm

SDNerd wrote:
Aphex wrote:Parallel twin :roll:


+1 and stuck together with holy cow dung in India. All about profit.

Parallel twins are great on two bikes: Triumphs (air cooled) and the 798 cc Rotax mill on the more intelligent choice of BMW "adventure" bikes. All others are about low cost to manufacture.

Why fooking bother with the KTM - just buy an FZ07. At least 40% less expensive, certainly more reliable and probably more fun too. Need orange? Rattle can an FZ.

So I guess you’re having a change of hart Nerd?
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Re: 800

Postby SDNerd » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:02 pm

Willh wrote:So I guess you’re having a change of hart Nerd?


:D

My "hart" is status quo. Still think the same about parallel twin applications, but maybe the good folks in India (per KTM instruction), have put together a fairly priced package at this point - ? While FZ07 (or whatever displacement Kawi is now offering in a semi-sporty naked parallel twin - Z650 IIRC), is going to be the value leader, the question is, based on claimed horsepower and price tag, is the KTM really competing with the Z900, FZ09, Shiver 900, Street Triple, etc. ? $10.5K US is a lot of scratch - so it ought to be damn good, as there's suddenly a lot of choices in this displacement/price/style category.

The claimed low weight of the thing is pretty appealing, and it looks pretty decent too. In comparison to recent years Duke 690s, it's a handsome bike. Not as clean or innovative appearing as a 990, but not hideous either.

Smart money IMO remains a second hand 990. You can a get a really fantastic bike for half (or less ) of any of the above offerings new.

I've been asked if I want to evaluate the Duke - thought I might give it a go.

On the topic of parallel twins,the best Triumph knock off that ever was, is back (in the US): https://www.kawasaki.com/motorcycle/w/retro-classic/w800

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Re: 800

Postby Willh » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:47 pm

Like to hear your thoughts on the bike.
Offset crank? Air-cooled Ducati-ish torque with single cylinder size chassis/weight? Seems appealing to me.

As of the last few seasons my riding time has dwindled, I only made it out once last vacation for a real ride. Needless to say I’m not in the market for a new bike when I have my 990 sitting motionless taking up space in the garage. That said, I vow to take/make “me” time next season. If a new bike were to be in the cards, less weight would be high on my list. 500cc single maybe for away from traffic riding. I could live with the high maintenance schedule for mid 200lbs and 50-60 hp. Would the vibes have me wishing for a twin again? Maybe like the 790... I don’t know...

That Kawi just looks wrong with a Ducati bevel drive looking thing on the timing side. A new old Yamaha XS650 would be a better Jap Brit twin copy for me. I loved the old triumph/BSA/Norton’s compact small bike feel. Can you really go home though? My last few rides on “classic” bikes including a short blast on a friends AJS last fall have reminded me how far we’ve come... losing interest in my own Norton.
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Re: 800

Postby SDNerd » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:31 am

We'll see how it goes. Committed to give it a roll, either tomorrow or next week, and will then decide on whether to continue with a longer evaluation. I'm not serious about purchasing one, but folks are seeking some feedback on it. The price tag is going to make it a hard sell against the competition - and when you can get v-twins, triples, and I4s for the same money or less - it will have to have some qualities that make it stand out.

It's the light weight appeal, assuming all else functions well ... Almost nothing in the engine or weight department can make for poor suspension and/or braking. It's the balance of an overall package that makes the difference. My problem is the lighter weight the ride, the more idiotically I tend to operate the thing. Why I've never owned an SM ... I'd lose my license status in a matter of days. Restraint - on a motorbike - really? That's what massive SUVs are for.

Always sorry to learn/read that folks don't have as much time for riding as they once may have, but I understand how that happens. Family and work situations change; when the economy is shit - no money, when the economy is on-fire - no time; etc.

FWIW - I still enjoy blasting around on my 50HP carbed Thruxton. I suffer separation anxiety at the prospect of changing it for a vastly superior 1200 R liquid cooled version. Not a Triumph Engineering of Meriden I have, but at least its UK assembled, makes the right noises when you pin it (often in my case), and turns better than it has a right to. Because I don't spend much time polishing it, it's developed a subtle patina. Not "vintage", but the "hard ridden" kind.

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Re: 800

Postby Aphex » Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:25 am

SDNerd wrote:
Willh wrote:So I guess you’re having a change of hart Nerd?


:D

My "hart" is status quo. Still think the same about parallel twin applications, but maybe the good folks in India (per KTM instruction), have put together a fairly priced package at this point - ? While FZ07 (or whatever displacement Kawi is now offering in a semi-sporty naked parallel twin - Z650 IIRC), is going to be the value leader, the question is, based on claimed horsepower and price tag, is the KTM really competing with the Z900, FZ09, Shiver 900, Street Triple, etc. ? $10.5K US is a lot of scratch - so it ought to be damn good, as there's suddenly a lot of choices in this displacement/price/style category.

The claimed low weight of the thing is pretty appealing, and it looks pretty decent too. In comparison to recent years Duke 690s, it's a handsome bike. Not as clean or innovative appearing as a 990, but not hideous either.

Smart money IMO remains a second hand 990. You can a get a really fantastic bike for half (or less ) of any of the above offerings new.

I've been asked if I want to evaluate the Duke - thought I might give it a go.

On the topic of parallel twins,the best Triumph knock off that ever was, is back (in the US): https://www.kawasaki.com/motorcycle/w/retro-classic/w800


KTM has actually partnered with CF Moto in China and will be producing all middleweights in China to be exported around the world (790 included). If that wasn't bad enough KTM has sold CF Moto the rights to the 990 LC8 and they will soon start making their own variation of the 990 for their bikes as well as punching the LC8 out to 1080cc. As if KTM didn't learn from Suzuki and Hyosung with the SV650 engine.
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Re: 800

Postby SDNerd » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:52 pm

Interesting, and thanks for the insights. India vs. China, I dunno - I'll usually choose Chinese made. It really doesn't matter beyond what compromises KTM is willing to accept WRT to brand reputation, and how well they are able to manage outsourced production from a quality standpoint.

I don't care much what KTM does with 990/1080 LC8 at this point. IMO, even in it's last iterations - its an engine that could have afforded additional refinement. So much of the original 950 LC8 was Rotax-like. Unsurprisingly given that's where KTM poached many a powertrain engineer. A much smaller firm then - development resource limited - unrefined was the order of the day, focus was on their singles. Improvements beyond the addition of FI and displacement bumps, were pretty limited given the long period of production.

To be clear, I'm not stating that "unrefined" is necessarily a bad thing, arguably a significant contributor to what many here refer to as "character", that the original SuperDuke has. I could personally have done without some of the engine's foibles. I tend to side in favor of "character", which immediately rules out Hondas for me; CB400 fours, VFRs, and just about any RC were fun bikes - with a least a little character. Stone reliabie, long lived, and refined to point of boring = Honda.

Suzuki and Honda both have had successes and failures WRT licensing of engine designs. Regarding Hyosung's v-twin 650 (Korean), they sold some bikes - which were also raced - and most buyers that went down that path knew full well that they weren't getting a real-deal Hamamatsu built SV, and the price was appealing enough. The original SV mill development - arguably prompted by Honda's earlier 650 v-twin (NT650, Hawk GT, RC31, or whatever else they called it) - was a less than perfect engine initially (oil starvation under certain conditions, shifting issues, etc.). Suzuki refined it through the years, as well as continually tried (and still does), to get cost out of it. Where Suzuki failed (fails), is in either upping the displacement to compete with the likes of the 790, etc. and/or refining the chassis to work as well as the first and second generation SVs. The one-year only naked SV1000 (US), was never the bike it could have been; Suzuki always so conservatively paranoid of their own "sport" products that would detract from high margin GSX-R sales (in the toilet for years at this point, for reasons most here know already), just didn't take it in the direction it could have. LOL - it took Suzuki more than a decade to shove the K5-6 1000 mill in detuned form, in the GSX-S1K, and by the time it was available - it was a non-starter given the competition. Sometimes I think Suzuki is its own worst enemy.

In contrast the Hyosung, Aprilia's licensing of Suzuki's RGV250 (Gamma) V-twin 2-stroke design, resulted in notable bikes (albeit models limited in purpose).

Couldn't pin down a time for the 790 evaluation yesterday, and may pursue this in the next week.

Willh - FWIW air cooled Hinkley parallel twins have a pipe similar to the Kawasaki - only it's in a different location. I personally don't mind what looks like a pushrod/bevel-drive tube.

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Re: 800

Postby Willh » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:33 pm

I don’t mind pushrod tubes when they are in the right place. I don’t mind bevel drive tube on old school Ducs or Parilla.

You had a ride yet?

Glad to see the site is back up.
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