Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Done a good mod that people might want to copy? Post it here - full step-by-step instructions and pix.

FAQs can go in here too
User avatar
indy84
Stunt rider
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:49 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby indy84 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:07 am

Breathing the top end is important because it relaeases all the presure built up in the engine and lets the engine rev smoother and removes the thick oil filled air from the engine.

two designs are availabe the first is a basic setup where the crancase breather is removed from the airbox.... generally after the motobox or grim 990 box is installed...

the biggest differance i noticed after the breather mod...

1. how smooth the engine felt at idle and under revs the engine has noticable less vibration

2. how quickly it was gaining revs

This is a mod similar to one i've done on other bikes. When the crankcase builds up presure from piston pulses the pressure in the case builds up to a point were piston movement is slowed, the pressure is released through a vent. this vent is usually pumped into the air box so as to not be released into the atmosphere.

The problem being that the air being pumped out has oil vapour in it, sometimes the reason you get oil in your airbox. this is also the reason the vapour is not pumped into the atmosphere.

The oil vapour being sucked into the combustion chamber then is ignited and burnt. There is simply less oxygen in the airbox and therefore less in the cyclinder.

when you breathe the crankcase, the oil vapour that condenses back to liquid needs to be collected so it dosent hit the road or your rear tyre. eg catch can (which you have to be able to drain.)

BASIC BREATHER MOD

This is an easy mod that smoothes your engine buy allowing it to breathe and giving it cleaner air.

Ingrediants
1 half metre length of hose (same diameter as your crank breather)(I used my old SAS lines as the are the right diameter)
1 Small air fliter
1 T piece to fit in the internal diameter of the hose
1 straight pipe adaptor for the end of hose to the filter
1 blanking plug
1 rubber block off to put back on the air box
6 hose clamps
6 zippy ties

This is a pic of my filter mounted on the old secondary butterfly actuator mounts.
you dont have to mount it here but it does have to be higher than where the T piece is mounted.


filter.jpg
filter.jpg (52.18 KiB) Viewed 16528 times




conector.jpg
conector.jpg (44.08 KiB) Viewed 16528 times


The T piece is set up as follows-
The top hose is from the crankcase, as the standad one is aiming down to go into the air box, its perfect.
The left runs to the new filter either higher or level with the T piece.
The bottom hose runs straight down to your battery box with a blanking plug in it.

Ive used clear line so as the vapour condenses i can see how much is collecting and when i have to drain it.


catch can.jpg
catch can.jpg (45.7 KiB) Viewed 16528 times


Dont forget to put the blanking cap on the airbox hole that is now open.

Ive always noticed a difference in every bike ive done this to, it eliminates big catch cans and is a affordable $50AUD.
Also reduces plug fowling.
06 superDuke
90 RM 250
56 Norton dominator
brisbane, OZ

User avatar
indy84
Stunt rider
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:49 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby indy84 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:19 am

ADVANCED BREATHER MOD

Breathing the top end is important because it relaeases all the presure built up in the engine and lets the engine rev smoother and removes the thick oil filled air from the engine.

both tappet covers were removed drilled an tapped, new gaskets and an inline oil/air seperator

Ive already noticed the engine performance has increased and it is reving smoother

breatherdiagram.jpg
breatherdiagram.jpg (19.56 KiB) Viewed 16527 times

tappet__covers[1].jpg
tappet__covers[1].jpg (166.67 KiB) Viewed 16527 times


this is the oil air seperator it seperates the oil mist.
oil_filter[1].jpg
oil_filter[1].jpg (160.51 KiB) Viewed 16527 times
06 superDuke
90 RM 250
56 Norton dominator
brisbane, OZ

User avatar
Lowrance
Trackday hero
 
Posts: 2271
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: So Cal

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Lowrance » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:33 am

Nice job indy.

User avatar
MrZ32
Trackday hero
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:19 am
Location: QLD, Oz

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby MrZ32 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:25 am

For the tapped cover type, Indy and I are going to go over this in finer detail when my bike is done... Put together some step by step instructions.

And if you really want hey may put together a kit for you that contains everything you need all cut to length and ready for assembly... Only if enough people want it though (you would still need to tap you own rocker covers but he will give you the exact detail)
08 SD, WP Dampener, 'Suspension Improvements" tuned sus (springs, valves, shim stacks ), KTM cowl, R&G carbon covers, Termi Pipes (from a duc 998), Grim990 Airbox, breather mod, SAS plates, tuneECU PDI tune, HM QS, JTM VS & DVS

User avatar
Linga
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1470
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:10 am
Location: Perth, Oz

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Linga » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:34 am

All I need is that part number... It's driving me insane :evil:

User avatar
Linga
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1470
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:10 am
Location: Perth, Oz

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Linga » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:09 am


User avatar
Colonel_Klinck
moderator
 
Posts: 10368
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:23 pm
Location: North London UK. The right side of the river!

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Colonel_Klinck » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:00 am

What is the general thought on running the crank and or rocker cover breathers into the SAS system guys?
"They lie about marijuana. Tell you pot-smoking makes you unmotivated. Lie! When you're high, you can do everything you normally do, just as well. You just realise that it's not worth the f*cking effort. There is a difference."
The late Bill Hicks

User avatar
indy84
Stunt rider
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:49 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby indy84 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:13 am

ok... i did it ... i got the part number from the Aeroflo catolog and then brought one

rsz_filter.jpg
rsz_filter.jpg (17.28 KiB) Viewed 16479 times
06 superDuke
90 RM 250
56 Norton dominator
brisbane, OZ

User avatar
TLS_Russ
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:38 am
Location: China / Great Britain, Norfolk

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby TLS_Russ » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:57 am

You could also use the latest Suzuki TL1000R crankcase breather/oil separator, TLs have a problem with pumping oil up into the airbox if overfilled or at sustained high RPM, I have the new one on my TLS and never have a drop of oil in the airbox now,
This breather/separator also has an inlet feed for the cam cover, the TLs just have a cam cover breather for the rear cylinder, highest point...
You could T two into one for the cam cover breathers on the SD and just run a filter on the airbox hose,
This would be a very neat installation on the SD I think :wink:

Sorry cant post pics, still in China and Photobucket is blocked here now :evil:

Link to the TL Zone about the TL breather/separator mod:
http://www.tlzone.net/forums/frequent-t ... irbox.html
Last edited by TLS_Russ on Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
'Ninety-nine percent of the people in the world are fools and the rest of us are in great danger of contagion'

Silverbear
Two wheeled terror
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:23 pm

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Silverbear » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:00 am

Just checked the catalogue and it seems to be a billet fuel filter.Indy do you have the p/n.Confussed.Cheers

User avatar
tripoddave
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1172
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 6:38 pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby tripoddave » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:18 am

These all look very professional.
I must say I'm venting my crank case into a bottle cable tied to the frame.
Is there any reason I shouldn't vent the cam covers in the same way?
Also isn't venting the cam covers just a different way of increasing the crank case breather capacity?
We know the crank case is tiny on the LC8 motor and suffers from pumping losses so just increasing the breathing to that space is a good thing no matter how its done: is that right?
fbsr: Sticky Side Down
PIN IT. NAIL IT. BRAKE! BRAKE! SQUEEZE EVERYTHING YOU CAN!

User avatar
Viking
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1419
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:29 pm

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Viking » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:32 am

I run the basic one. Nice and neat. Works well and the bike seemed to rev free'er

Might look into the advanced style once the detailed how to is done.
THUNDERSPORT GB STREETFIGHTER CLASS A. 3rd 2013

http://www.spartanracing.co.uk

User avatar
TLS_Russ
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:38 am
Location: China / Great Britain, Norfolk

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby TLS_Russ » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:55 am

indy84 wrote:ok... i did it ... i got the part number from the Aeroflo catolog and then brought one

rsz_filter.jpg


Me thinks that is a fuel filter to, looks too small to be an air/oil separator, did you open it up to see whats inside :?:
'Ninety-nine percent of the people in the world are fools and the rest of us are in great danger of contagion'

User avatar
indy84
Stunt rider
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:49 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby indy84 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:18 pm

it is a fuel filter, the fine mesh works inside... I've been using it to seperate the air/oil as all you need is the gause that comes inside... it works as i have never had a drop of oil out of my breather.

Viking wrote:I run the basic one. Nice and neat. Works well and the bike seemed to rev free'er

Might look into the advanced style once the detailed how to is done.


THIS IS THE MORE DETAILED ADVANCED BREATHER MOD

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16789
06 superDuke
90 RM 250
56 Norton dominator
brisbane, OZ

Silverbear
Two wheeled terror
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:23 pm

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Silverbear » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:51 pm

Can your buy the mesh by it self because if that is all it is I will make my own.Would something like stainless steel wool do the job.Can you give me an idea of what the mesh is?Indy if the filter works as good as you say then there would be no harm in connecting the vent's to the SAS because no oil would reach the SAS valve's and cake up the exhaust valve.Those SAS valves sure do suck[free vacum pump supplied by KTM I reckon and I know it works].Cheers

User avatar
indy84
Stunt rider
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:49 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby indy84 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:35 pm

:mrgreen: to mr bear and mr linga

rsz_filterguts.jpg
rsz_filterguts.jpg (34.53 KiB) Viewed 16373 times
06 superDuke
90 RM 250
56 Norton dominator
brisbane, OZ

User avatar
Linga
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1470
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:10 am
Location: Perth, Oz

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Linga » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:47 pm

Legend Indy! Thanks for the confirmation. I'll order today and hopefully get it installed first thing next week!

Silverbear
Two wheeled terror
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:23 pm

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Silverbear » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:53 pm

Thanks Indy.Appreciate your work.Cheers

User avatar
Linga
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1470
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:10 am
Location: Perth, Oz

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Linga » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:57 am

TLS_Russ wrote:You could also use the latest Suzuki TL1000R crankcase breather/oil separator, TLs have a problem with pumping oil up into the airbox if overfilled or at sustained high RPM, I have the new one on my TLS and never have a drop of oil in the airbox now,
This breather/separator also has an inlet feed for the cam cover, the TLs just have a cam cover breather for the rear cylinder, highest point...
You could T two into one for the cam cover breathers on the SD and just run a filter on the airbox hose,
This would be a very neat installation on the SD I think :wink:

Sorry cant post pics, still in China and Photobucket is blocked here now :evil:

Link to the TL Zone about the TL breather/separator mod:
http://www.tlzone.net/forums/frequent-t ... irbox.html

Image
The new parts have numbers:

TANK, OIL RETURN 11330-02F10 (~$50)
HOSE, OIL RETURN 11333-02F00 (~ $5)

The hose on the new box is about 12-15mm shorter. Save your money on a new hose, just trim a little off! Still it's only a few $$$$ ........

The difference between the two tanks is shown Above:
The new one (on the right) is slightly larger and more rectangular, versus the kidney shaped item of the older type; if you don't have the rectangular shaped one, then replace it with this revision.
The main difference is that the later one is filled with wire gauze which does a better job of the separation function.

Image
After mutiple different revisions to try to control the Crankcase Breather from dumping oil into the airbox, Suzuki finally came up with a scheme that works with the Oil Separator used in the Late Model TLR.

The Oil Separator is connected by hoses in-line between the crankcase emission outlet on top of the rear cam cover, the airbox and return to crankcase. It sits in the 'Vee' above the front cylinder.

The Separator tank and connector hose are shown in the parts fiche below, (Crankcase Drawing), items 23 & 25.

User avatar
TLS_Russ
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:38 am
Location: China / Great Britain, Norfolk

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby TLS_Russ » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:11 am

Cheers for that Linga :wink:
'Ninety-nine percent of the people in the world are fools and the rest of us are in great danger of contagion'

User avatar
Viking
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1419
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:29 pm

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Viking » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:13 am

Why not just use wire wool/gauze in the hose and position it just before the std valve?

Reading between the lines this looks to me like another one of those jobs thats being made complicated for the sake of it.

The advanced one Indy shouted to (unless he can't work his cap locks) doesn't seem a huge amount different to the basic one gains wise.

What I'm interested in is connecting it to the SAS system. This seem very simple to do but I'm unsure of how with would work on track at constant higher revs and wide open throttle pulling so much pressure in the crankcase.
THUNDERSPORT GB STREETFIGHTER CLASS A. 3rd 2013

http://www.spartanracing.co.uk

User avatar
MrZ32
Trackday hero
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:19 am
Location: QLD, Oz

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby MrZ32 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:41 am

Guys... The vacuum 'pump' from the sas is a passive pump... The negative pressures are not that great... It is just that it will help remove the excess vapour out of the crankcase and heads.

I was talking with silver bear and have come up with a tidy looking and effective way of hooking up the heads & crankcase to the sas and an extra one way valve for good measure
08 SD, WP Dampener, 'Suspension Improvements" tuned sus (springs, valves, shim stacks ), KTM cowl, R&G carbon covers, Termi Pipes (from a duc 998), Grim990 Airbox, breather mod, SAS plates, tuneECU PDI tune, HM QS, JTM VS & DVS

User avatar
TLS_Russ
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:38 am
Location: China / Great Britain, Norfolk

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby TLS_Russ » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:53 pm

Am I right in thinking there is no one way valve or air oil separator in the SDs crankcase breather system as stock :?:
'Ninety-nine percent of the people in the world are fools and the rest of us are in great danger of contagion'

User avatar
Linga
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1470
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:10 am
Location: Perth, Oz

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby Linga » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:06 pm

TLS_Russ wrote:Am I right in thinking there is no one way valve or air oil separator in the SDs crankcase breather system as stock :?:

There is a one way valve (check valve/Flap valve) on the standard crankcase breather.
More gains can be made from moving this closer to the crankcase... (Not pushing air up and down the hose) Not much but every little bit for free helps.
I also think that the cam covers should have (my opinion only) a one way valve and will be installing it on mine... I just may end up using the TLS Oil separator.

User avatar
TLS_Russ
Wheelie king
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:38 am
Location: China / Great Britain, Norfolk

Re: Breather setups- Basic and advanced

Postby TLS_Russ » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:13 pm

Linga wrote:
TLS_Russ wrote:Am I right in thinking there is no one way valve or air oil separator in the SDs crankcase breather system as stock :?:

There is a one way valve (check valve/Flap valve) on the standard crankcase breather.
More gains can be made from moving this closer to the crankcase... (Not pushing air up and down the hose) Not much but every little bit for free helps.
I also think that the cam covers should have (my opinion only) a one way valve and will be installing it on mine... I just may end up using the TLS Oil separator.


Thanks Linga, do you have a photo of it, I have searched but I cant find anything :?
'Ninety-nine percent of the people in the world are fools and the rest of us are in great danger of contagion'

Next

Return to How to do it!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: e-n-h and 2 guests