GP16 - Looks good!

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Lowrance
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GP16 - Looks good!

Postby Lowrance » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:04 pm


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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby SDNerd » Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:18 pm

Agreed, and pretty much like everything else on the MotoGP grid. That swingarm just screams Honda to me. Funny how rule sets have the propensity to homogenize things even in the most competitive environments.

As for obtaining one, I'm simply not willing to shell out that kind of money for bike - any bike. OK - maybe if it was a "hover bike".

As for KTM being competitive, I wish them well, but I don't see their staying long. Frankly, I think they'd be better off in WSBK from a marketing standpoint. It's certainly done Aprilia and Kawasaki no harm. Why BMW is so half-hearted about racing, is inexplicable. I suppose if you can outsell everyone without the overhead, good on ya.

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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby Crotchrockety » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:15 pm

SDNerd wrote:As for KTM being competitive, I wish them well, but I don't see their staying long.


And this is why: "The suspension of course is being handled by WP Suspension, a KTM-owned company."
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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby Colonel_Klinck » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:30 pm

With the rule changes coming and everyone being on the same ECUs the playing field is being levelled. Not saying they will be competitive but I wouldn't write them off either.
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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby CEREC1 » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:11 pm

Crotchrockety wrote:
SDNerd wrote:As for KTM being competitive, I wish them well, but I don't see their staying long.


And this is why: "The suspension of course is being handled by WP Suspension, a KTM-owned company."

Does any team in MotoGP run anything other than Ohlins?
WP ain't what it used to be by any stretch of the imagination. Pride in their product will probably be KTM's downfall :roll:
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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby SDNerd » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:13 pm

CEREC1 wrote:
Crotchrockety wrote:
SDNerd wrote:As for KTM being competitive, I wish them well, but I don't see their staying long.


And this is why: "The suspension of course is being handled by WP Suspension, a KTM-owned company."

Does any team in MotoGP run anything other than Ohlins?
WP ain't what it used to be by any stretch of the imagination. Pride in their product will probably be KTM's downfall :roll:


Like Buell's choice in brakes? :mrgreen:

Or they'll use Ohlins with different outward finishes, and a lot of WP decals. If nothing else, they'll purchase and copy whatever "magic" Ohlins has ... Just how these things go.

Even Honda isn't that arrogant/stupid (and they could be): They own Showa and Nissin, and use Ohlins and Brembo on their factory machines. What's that tell you?

As for "spec" electronics, I don't really see that as that much a benefit for KTM. The packages are so flexible in their programmability, that the real trick is in dialing that in for every rider/circuit/race-day conditions. Where I think they'll get killed is in engine durability. They'll DNF and DQ. KTM hasn't any real experience with mills that rev or with outputs at the competitive factory MotoGP level. Given current engine count limitations - they'll never survive. I doubt they'll invest in top-tier riders - and of the top 5 or 6 guys, who would want to ride for them?

Don't get me wrong: The more factories involved - the better. I am of the view that MotoGP is almost entirely a money game: They who spend most, win. Even if they are 1/2-owned by some other conglomerate, I don't envision KTM willing to afford what it takes to win for one simple reason: The marketing benefit isn't there. If the best-performing street-going bike they build is the 1290 "family" - very low volumes compared to ALL their direct competitors - It's hard to justify the supposed "value" of MotoGP prestige.

Again, I wish them well, but don't see them on a podium - ever - in MotoGP. As much as I like a good "underdog" - a the same time, I hope I'm wrong.

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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby DribbleDuke » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:49 pm

I hope your wrong also. Don't forget Red Bull as a sponsor. They have had a V-four on the grid already and Kenny Roberts thought it was a pretty good motor. You are right about the rider being a very important piece of the equation and Mika Kallio is not a bad test rider. I see Steffen Bradl or Andea Dovisioso as good candidates for a rider. Even Crutchlow would fair well as at least he's willing to ride past the machines capability. I excited to see where this all leads. There are a lot of Moto two riders that wuold love to step up to the big show and many show great talent. I'd take Zarco or Maveric Vinalas in a heartbeat.
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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby Colonel_Klinck » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:29 am

I don't think KTM are planning a factory team. They are planning to sell these bikes to teams. It's up to the team to sort out their own riders. I don't think they will challenge Honda and Yamaha but no reason given time that they couldn't challenge Suzuki and Aprilia.
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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby Lowrance » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:54 am

I read somewhere that KTM no longer own WP suspension.

KTM have experience with high review four stroke motors from the Moto3 class. They know how to make reliable power so don't think that will be too much of an issue for them to overcome (they've got a year and a half to work the bugs out). The electronics will require a bit of effort to get over the learning curve but again, not insurmountable.

Wish them luck.

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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby SDNerd » Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:53 pm

Lowrance wrote:I read somewhere that KTM no longer own WP suspension.


That's interesting news - hadn't read anything about that. In trying to learn more, stumbled on this interesting and somewhat recent article about WP: http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/04/22/wp ... urer-tour/

As for Ohlins, I think Yamaha retains something like 5% in the company - having sold the rest in ~2007 (and many Ohlins components are still manufactured in Japan - which is a good thing IMO).

FWIW In WSBK - I think Syke's Kawi (ironically - ?) has Nissin binders and Showa suspension. The Japanese really do make good stuff (which we can't buy ...), but the final setups are so rider/course/condition specific, that it comes down to the teams' abilities to keep things competitive.

As for engines - if there's one thing KTM does know how to do well, is build race worthy singles. Which other than being internal combustion, have little to do with building a 250+HP/litre output V4s that needs to rev to the moon and survive 2 or 3 race weekends.

What KTM have almost no real track record doing is 1) building a MotoGP premier class engine of any kind - let alone V4s; and B) competing in the premier class. It's this combination that puts them waaaaaaaaaay behind the curve (compared to Aprilia or Suzuki). What Robert's failed Proton team toyed around with a decade ago, has almost no relevance to what's going on in MotoGP today. IIRC, Proton also used Honda engines, when their own engine just wasn't happening ... More importantly, little about the bikes are the same now as they were then.

On the matter of selling/leasing bikes to privateers - that's not the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" model, that KTM generally adheres to with dirt products. Instead, what you all are implying that they're going to implement a "Perpetual also ran, I think I'll buy a Ducati instead on Monday" model - ? For less than the money KTM propose asking for the publicly available version (track only use), one can buy a fully prepped AMA or WSBK superbike (or 2 ...). For a guy who just wants to have that (for whatever purpose; trackdays, collection, club racing, etc. ...) - why would they buy a KTM, that also visually looks like everything else?

Clearly, I fail to see KTM's marketing strategy here. I do like the idea of their participation, and willingness to take on the challenge. Again - IMO more players, the better.

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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby shadowman » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:53 pm

Nerd - you coming to crashfest next year?
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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby SDNerd » Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:38 pm

shadowman wrote:Nerd - you coming to crashfest next year?


Think it will happen?

I sure would like to - a challenge for me to commit now ... Based on last year, I know that I'll have to plan earlier if I want to get on-board. It would definitely be big fun, even if for only the visit.

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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby shadowman » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:11 pm

I'm sure it will happen. No idea how many SD's there will be but I would go for a couple of days in August at Cadwell regardless of what others are doing anyway.

If you can make it without busting the bank or getting sacked / divorced then my offer from last year remains. No point in coming all this way and not getting your feet wet!!
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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby MrK » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:41 pm

CEREC1 wrote:
Crotchrockety wrote:
SDNerd wrote:As for KTM being competitive, I wish them well, but I don't see their staying long.


And this is why: "The suspension of course is being handled by WP Suspension, a KTM-owned company."

Does any team in MotoGP run anything other than Ohlins?
WP ain't what it used to be by any stretch of the imagination. Pride in their product will probably be KTM's downfall :roll:


Not in GP, but Moto2 for sure (like 2015 champion Zarco for example): http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/07/0 ... to2/179284
Give them a chance, but hardly any other company can be a competitor to Ohlins with their experience in MotoGP and product quality.

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Re: GP16 - Looks good!

Postby Lowrance » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:35 am

270hp? That sounds like a pretty impressive number on paper.

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