What would you do? RC8 locked up

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blb
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What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby blb » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:45 pm

So as many of you know my RC8 has been a real labour of love and I'm looking for advice.

So the most recent problem was the oil pressure light came on at speed on track. As soon as the light came on I pulled into the pits, bike still making power sounding normal etc. Read a few posts about possible faulty pressure switch or connection so lifted the tank to find connectors which were ok. Started bike and it stopped like fuel starvation so lifted tank to check breathers and connection etc.

Dropped the tank back on and started it, made very loud camchain type noise so hit the killswitch fast.

So finally got the bike back from Spain and on advice from KTM got the clutch out to inspect the oil pressure regulator behind the basket as this is a potential weak spot. When pulling the basket apart the oil pump gear fell off into our hands and had sheared in half, also noticed a little damage to the back of the regulator valve. Also dropped the oil, there was a small amount of metal in the oil but nothing drastic..

Interestingly the oil pump gear has been superceded..

I have ordered replacement gear, valve and various circlips, washers and oil filters etc. totalling £100. Waiting for these to arrive now. Now on further inspection the rear of the clutch basket is damaged and one of the springs in there has broken. This part is £580!! Of course the other worry is that the bike is starved of oil and the bearings, cams etc are fooked.. which will get VERY expensive

Now I have spoken to KTM UK and they are indicating that they "might" pay for parts if I pay labour at a KTM dealer. As some of you know I work in a bike shop and only pay very small labour charge if its done in house but I would have to pay for parts. Or I let it go to Fowlers or Crescent and then pay them the labour (which could be just as extortionate)

So would you send the bike off to the dealer and be at the mercy of their labour charges or keep it here and pay for the parts as they go??
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wizzzard
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby wizzzard » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:29 pm

Have you explained the part of you working for your father? Otherwise they could decide to pay the half of the parts without garantee ofcourse because of you putting the bike togheter. Not saying that you do a worse job then a mecanic at Fowlers or Crescent.
That little word "might" in your sentence is the part where i am carefull about.
Before you transport that bike anywhere i should try to get something on paper from KTM, because they are not totaly reliable (believe me i been there :roll: ).
wish you the best of luck with this.
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shadowman
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby shadowman » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:35 pm

No familiar with the RC8 clutch basket specifically but in many cases the basket is just a cage assembly and a bit of minor damage would have no affect at all. If the damage is minor and doesn't bear on function you might be able to just ignore it and replace the spring?

From your description the bike hasn't run under load in a low oil pressure situation which makes internal damage less likley.

I think I would just take the parts and get your own workshop to do the job but it's not clearcut from the information available.

What is clear is that you have had awful luck with your RC8. I wonder how typical that is of the type......
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby Superdan » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:50 pm

I would take the engine out and take it to the KTM dealer.

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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby Colonel_Klinck » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:55 pm

I'd go with shadowman's idea. If the clutch basket just has some cosmetic damage just use it again and get your place to do the work.
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby blb » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:56 pm

looking at the back of the clutch basket, the gear that broke has taken a chunk out of the spring holder. Also the spring has broken, our belief is that it would cause massive vibes from the clutch as its losing a lot of its damping.

I'll get some pics together..

It seems that KTM are willing to help to a degree but I could end up with a huge labour bill. In a real quandry at the moment :?
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shadowman
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby shadowman » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:18 pm

If you do need one its the sort of part that should be safe from a breaker if you can find one.

Just a thought....
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby blb » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:20 pm

shadowman wrote:If you do need one its the sort of part that should be safe from a breaker if you can find one.

Just a thought....


Yeah I'm on the lookout, just missed one on ebay..
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby Sabre » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:07 pm

I'd do it in house,then you can see exactly what is wrong and also learn more about your bike + you can pay for the parts as you go/can afford them.

Whichever way you go good luck as you deserve some 8)
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby blb » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:19 pm

Here is the offending article. The theory is the circlip at the top broke off which caused the oil pump gear to shatter, stop feeding oil to engine and tear a chunk out of the back of the clutch basket.

I'm thinking that when the gear and ancillary bits arrive I'll fit it all back together get some oil in there and see if the engine turns. If it doesn't turn then let fowlers have it for ktm and them to sort.

If it does turn then maybe just do it myself slowly as Sabre suggests. Hopefully some bits will show up on fleabay etc..

Broken gear and circlip.
Image

Back of clutch basket. Notice the spring is broken in half too.
Image
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby paul81 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:06 pm

if ktm are offering free parts, does that mean they're accepting blame, as in it's a warranty issue?
i can't think why they would offer parts but not labour if the fault is with they're manufacturing?
perhaps you should push them for the labour too?
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby Viking » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:03 pm

Pull the motor and check the shells, bearings, cams, rings and bore and make a call from there.

It might look like it needs a full refresh. No point fixing the pump and basket for it to pick up and stick a leg out the bed at 10grand.

I'd pay the cheap labour and fish about for parts cheap or get them through your trade discount.
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby blb » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:25 am

paul81 wrote:if ktm are offering free parts, does that mean they're accepting blame, as in it's a warranty issue?
i can't think why they would offer parts but not labour if the fault is with they're manufacturing?
perhaps you should push them for the labour too?


KTM have admitted (between the lines) there is a problem with a few parts in that area. They won't pay labour as its out of warranty, TBH I'm lucky to get parts as it doesn't have full KTM history.

This morning I'm thinking just pay the parts as I go.. this could change though. If Fowlers say its a track bike to KTM I reckon they'll pull all support
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby Vortex155 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:02 pm

there was a basket posted at fleabay a while ago, dunno it still sits in the store there.
Was tempting to buy it myself for that price, knew they are very expensive.
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby Superdan » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:32 pm


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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby Colonel_Klinck » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:58 pm

blb wrote:
paul81 wrote:if ktm are offering free parts, does that mean they're accepting blame, as in it's a warranty issue?
i can't think why they would offer parts but not labour if the fault is with they're manufacturing?
perhaps you should push them for the labour too?


KTM have admitted (between the lines) there is a problem with a few parts in that area. They won't pay labour as its out of warranty, TBH I'm lucky to get parts as it doesn't have full KTM history.

This morning I'm thinking just pay the parts as I go.. this could change though. If Fowlers say its a track bike to KTM I reckon they'll pull all support



Can you refit the brake light? Then just say you have it on a daylight MOT
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby blb » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:37 pm



Cheers Dan, nice spot but they won't fit. Different part numbers :cry:
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby blb » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:10 pm

Ok so a new theory regarding my troubles has just been thrown up which makes a lot of sense.

When I was riding the bike hard along Almeria straight I was struggling to get the bike into 5th and 6th gear.. (a symptom of broken springs)

What if the thing that started the problem was the broken spring in the clutch back plate had turned enough to tear itself out of its retainer enough to cause the damage to it which then shattered the oil pump drive gear?

Seems feasible to me as the oil pump gear is a very low stress part normally?

Now looking into it in more detail it looks like the parts that Dan linked on ebay will actually fit so I'm going to gamble and buy them to see if it will work, all it seems is they have different springs. If I buy the complete clutch pack it should all go together quite nicely.

Of course we still don't know if the temporary oil pump fail has caused further damage but we'll see if engine turns and go from there..
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby Superdan » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:33 pm

Good luck with that, just dont hold me responsible if they dont fit :lol:

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blb
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby blb » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:56 pm

I will be holding you personally and financially responsible :D . Looks like it will fit so fingers crossed
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby blb » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:46 am

Ok so we got all the parts together for the bike including the clutch, put it all in and the engine is still locked :evil:

Guys here think the big end bearings have gone as there was what looks like bearing material in the oil (gold/bronze in colour) ,tried to budge it off the crank and it moves about a quarter turn each way.

So now I have to send it off to Fowlers for them to diagnose and inform KTM, then hope for the best. If KTM don't come forward to help then I can have it back in pieces and just pay Fowlers the labour for stripping it down and diagnosis.

Really don't know where to turn :cry:
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby Colonel_Klinck » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:03 am

That is bad luck dude :( hope KTM do the right thing by you.
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby tripoddave » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:06 am

Sadly we were concerned about the main bearings from the beginning.
It seems reasonable that KTM should help you, however.
I think it's clear that a faulty part is responsible for your motor's demise.
Hopefully KTM will, at the very least, provide you with the parts you need foc. You may find they are more reluctant to foot the bill for labour but hopefully you'll be able to get that done at your workshop and save a few shekels?
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby blb » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:37 am

KTM will only pay for any parts if its done at a KTM dealer. So I'm at the mercy of Fowlers now. KTM haven't been very specific yet about what they will pay, we know the cause you just have to look at the old oil pump gear compared to the new one to see that.

Fowlers have promised to keep it quiet that its a track bike but not sure how much I trust them. I would hope they wouldn't dick on someone in the bike trade, won't be good for them as we buy a LOT of parts off them.

If it gets too costly on labour at Fowlers I have the option to ask them to stop work.
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Re: What would you do? RC8 locked up

Postby tripoddave » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:48 am

All the very best bud. Keep us posted.
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