Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

For all 1290 related mods.
GJB
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby GJB » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:30 am

What it the width of carbon you are using such that you get 1 layer per meter. You can get 50" x 36" on ebay for around $30. I would think that is enough to do close to 2 belly pans. I typically go with around 3 layers of 8 oz/sq yd, and and extra 1" piece around the perimeter. That equates to close to 1mm thickness which is pretty stout.

You do amazing work! It is the last 5% in finishing off a plug and mold that takes 90% of the time, and yours looks gorgeous. I always admire perfect molds. My molds look like hell, I just get a few careful layers down to make sure there are no voids and the slap on the rest. While you will get faster with time, the only way to produce a great part is to meticulously cut, place and work each layer. That level of care shows in the end product. Exceptional work, it is truly a labour of love...

abc
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby abc » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:45 am

Thanks for that. Keep in mind that Im driven by my desire to duplicate the quality of the Akra carbon parts and to do it in my back shed without an autoclave or using prepreg and metal molds. That is a big ask but I think I have come close to achieving it 8)

The large surface area of carbon is needed to firstly lay the weave into the deep mold without cutting seams or having weave distortions and also importantly to match up to the angle of the weave on the Akra stuff that is already on my bike - this might be wasteful but it is the only way to achieve the results I want - no point doing all the work to the molds and then just throwing it all together. It took me a complete day to lay all the layers up correctly with small amounts of spray adhesive - another crazy amount of f*ing around :roll: But the weave and the weave angles match without any seams!

The first version I made was only 1mm thick and it cracked and showed some effects from heat off the headers so i have doubled it now to 2mm. I have no seams in any of the layers because Im fussy. The seams on the first version caused small inconsistent thickness results and meant I had to pack out some areas where the front mounts met the carbon. The final version 2 part measures 2mm thick and is within 0.1mm in tolerance with no packing necessary. Im pretty happy with that and the way the vac infusion process worked. It is a far more high end looking part.

I have been professionally designing one off parts for a very longtime and I always have a reason for doing what I do and the design decisions I make. i also always have a reason for how I make my parts and the aesthetics of the final part and the fit and finish are very important to me, otherwise I end up with what looks like your typical homemade lesser quality carbon part.
There is always a lot more involved than one might first think especially if only a brief thought goes into the conclusions drawn (no offence to anyone) - there is a sh1tload of thought that has gone into this design version but it matches up quite well. I am glad I spent a lot of time thinking about and shaping the exact design of this version and Im glad other members spoke up and mentioned their preference for a more angular design - their input has helped me move forward.
Sorry to bore you with the long post!
Any modifications you undertake are your sole responsibility, I am not liable for any claims relating to modifications or suggestions posted on this forum. If you undertake any modifications you do so at your own risk.

GJB
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby GJB » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:36 am

Keep doing what you are doing, it definitely works! Perfection is a beautiful thing. Only someone that has gone through the process will fully understand. I don't think I have owned a bike without putting some kind of personal touch on it.

LiferLance990
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby LiferLance990 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:25 pm

could you edit the first post to lay out your final notes and all. I want to copy your success and make some bits for my 990
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abc
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby abc » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:28 pm

LiferLance990 wrote:could you edit the first post to lay out your final notes and all. I want to copy your success and make some bits for my 990

I am not too sure exactly what you are asking me to do? I hope you dont want me to edit through the last 7 pages for you :? Im pretty sure everything you need is already here. of course if I have left something out or have not been very clear with the "how to do it" just ask and I'll fix it for you.
I only expected this thread to be a few pages and it would be finished but alas nothing is quick and easy with this stuff. Keep in mind that I too am still learning.
Are you asking for a written short list of steps to follow?
Any modifications you undertake are your sole responsibility, I am not liable for any claims relating to modifications or suggestions posted on this forum. If you undertake any modifications you do so at your own risk.

abc
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby abc » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:48 am

Someone just sent me this and it might help fill in any gaps in the "how to" section. He basically started from nothing and made a few average bits before turning to Vacuum infusion and doing it right to get a quality part.
Hope this helps you
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/f ... er.828372/
Any modifications you undertake are your sole responsibility, I am not liable for any claims relating to modifications or suggestions posted on this forum. If you undertake any modifications you do so at your own risk.

LiferLance990
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby LiferLance990 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:17 pm

Basically I was asking for the start to finish, without pics, for the final build so I can crank out one (in less than 3 years) for my 990
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abc
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby abc » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:18 am

Process from start to finish for vacuum infusion of carbon fiber.

1: Figure out what you want to make - if you already have a part to copy your life will be much much easier, if not create your own and expect to spend a lot of time doing it this way. Better design = better product. Consider mounts, cooling if necessary and aesthetics if you need in the design. Design draw angles greater than 4 degrees to stop everything self locking together or design multi part mold to compensate.
2: Build and shape rough plug from foam or cardboard and support the structure as you go to keep rigid form. (I used 2 pack high density foaming resin)
3:Cover structure in bondo and sand to desired shape - you want to go down to at least 400 grit.
4: Clean and spray with hard 2 pack. Lots of light coats and build to something that is thick and you can start to sand. Sand all the way to 1500 grit and even better if you want a good plug surface. No pin holes and mirror surface if you can.
5:Clean and give your new plug 10 coats of silicon free wax.
6: Give the newly waxed plug a thin coat of PVA mold release agent. No runs or imperfections because you will see these in your mold. Allow to dry.
7: Cover in gelcoat X 2, resin and fiberglass - use lots of layers and rotate the weaves because you want your mold to be rigid and not too flexible.
8: Place in vacuum bag and pump down - leave to cure. Its an exothermic reaction so be aware.
9: Pray that you can get everything apart.
10: Remove fiberglass mold from plug.
11: Trim fiberglass to final shape and also build support feet for your new mold so it sits stable and can be worked on.
12: Sand out any imperfections and go to very fine grit to give best finish. The finish on the mold will be reflected in your carbon fiber finished product. Cut and polish the gelcoat until shiny.
13: Give your new mold 10 coats of silicon free wax.
14: Give your new mold 2 thin coats of PVA - no runs or imperfections. Mist coats is what you want. I used an airbrush. Mask off area where gum tape will go otherwise it wont stick.
15: Use small amounts of spray adhesive and very carefully lay the carbon into the mold so as not to distort the weave and avoid cutting pleats if you can because you will see them in the final part.
16: Carefully build up the layers of carbon, basalt, kevlar etc to the desired thickness. Pre cutting all materials will make thing quicker and easier for you.
17: Place gum tape around the outside of the mold.
18: Cut and place breather ply into the mold. You can cut and overlap this.
19: Cut and place transfer mesh into the mold. You can cut and overlap this. Place extra layers at vacuum pump end of the job.
20: Cover everything with Vacuum bag materials - pleats will be necessary in the tape and the bag materials because you want it to conform to the shape.
21: Place 1 inlet pipe and 1 exhaust pipe in the tape at opposite ends of the job so it meets the transfer mesh. You can run spiral wrap around from the inlet pipe if you need to transfer the resin a long distance.
22: Clamp off exhaust lines and seal everything well and pump down and check for any leaks - then clamp off the pump lines - you want no leaks and if your job holds vacuum for 20 minutes you are good to go.
23: Once re pumped down - mix enough resin to do the job. Watch your catalyst so the mix does not cure too quick or you will be in trouble.
24: Place the inlet pipe into the resin pot and remove the clamp.
Resin will now be sucked from the pot into the transfer mesh and through the carbon layers - my job took about 20 minutes to transfer.
25: Once the resin is fully transferred and is showing signs of being in the vacuum line its time to clamp the vacuum line and leave everything to cure. This is why you need a catch pot - it stops the pump seeing the resin.
26: Be patient and dont be tempted to remove everything too quickly or your job will distort.
27: Debag, remove gum tapes, remove peal ply etc.
28: Remove job from mold. There should be no need to do any post finishing of the surface if your mold surface was good enough - shinny mold surface = shiny carbon surface. No sanding and covering in clear coat needed.
29: post cure the resin to manufactures spec if the part has to take heat or load.
30: Cut final part to size and shape.
31 Drill and tap or design and attach any mounts.
32: Fit to your bike, remove, then refit to your bike, remove, then refit to your bike - get the best fit possible.
33: Place heat proof tape on the inside of the final part in appropriate areas.
34: Now its up to you to decide if you want that shinny stuff or matt finish on the carbon. Do as you please.

As usual wear all the safety sh1t because some of this stuff is pretty nasty :roll:

There you go - all that should only take you a few day and you will be done :?
Any modifications you undertake are your sole responsibility, I am not liable for any claims relating to modifications or suggestions posted on this forum. If you undertake any modifications you do so at your own risk.

LiferLance990
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby LiferLance990 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:05 am

haha, thank man. The little details were lost in the whole write up, and that's clears up a lot. now, off to the store for some hard foam! see yall in a few years.
2007 Super Duke
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abc
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby abc » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:59 am

I know you joke about "see you in a few years" and it feels like that sometimes.
I just looked back through my posts so I could write the above list of steps and noted - it took 1 year for me to finish the original foam formwork and finish V1 and V2 and do all the trial and error along the way.
It was in April 2015 that I first posted pics of my bike roped to the sidewalls of my shed, packed with tin foil and with a makeshift cardboard box stuck underneath it. It seems like a long time ago but it was a huge task to take on a job like this without any experience. Each step of the way I had to do a lot of thinking until I was satisfied enough to move to the next step :?
I had trouble through winter because the temps were too cold to cure any resins properly but I didn't wait around and did lots of tests to see what was cheap and what worked. I then took about 8 weeks off and built my lady a kitchen. Its been a very busy 12 months 8)

Nothing beats experience with this stuff. Best advice I can give is do each step as best you can and be fussy and the results will come.

I wish you luck with your project and keep us posted re your progress.
Any modifications you undertake are your sole responsibility, I am not liable for any claims relating to modifications or suggestions posted on this forum. If you undertake any modifications you do so at your own risk.

LiferLance990
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby LiferLance990 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:12 am

So, step -1 begins friday. I plan to make some cardboard mock ups of the belly pan ideas and see what I like.
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DukeNukem999
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby DukeNukem999 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:09 am

Wow, love your work abc. Well done.
2010 (white-frame) SD, Rotty intake / SAS removal, Ceramic coated OEM headers / Akra slipons, Ergo seat, Scott's oil filter, Factory alarm, SDR levers, Shorai LiFePO4, OEM 16T / KTM Supersprox 40T, RK GB525GXW chain, Michelin Pilot Road 4 / Pilot Power 3.

LiferLance990
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby LiferLance990 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:46 am

So, step 1 is REALLY hard. Haha. EVERYTHING I have mocked up looks bad the next day
2007 Super Duke
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Evap removed
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Battlax BT003s
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abc
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby abc » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:35 pm

Maybe try doing it sober next time :mrgreen:
Agreed - its pretty hard but you only get out what you put into it - dont give up mate, my shit looked average at stage 1 but design is always harder than it looks especially if you are doing a direct mockup and no using CAD etc.
Keep at it and look forward to seeing your results.
Any modifications you undertake are your sole responsibility, I am not liable for any claims relating to modifications or suggestions posted on this forum. If you undertake any modifications you do so at your own risk.

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SpeedyR
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby SpeedyR » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:18 pm

abc that is really fantastic work. The amount of time and effort that goes into creating something like that is amazing. Even the changes from Gen 1 to Gen 2. I still laugh at when WERA (our local racing organization) first started to require belly pans for racing (maybe early 2000's) and many just bought turkey basting pans and wire tied them to the bikes (I always raced naked bikes, Hawk GT (NT650) and SV's. It was a while before I could afford bodywork and a "real" belly pan. lol...

your work reminds me of the work and effort of a famous Kiwi (Britten) put into his bikes. Maybe not on that scale but the attention to detail and workmanship. There's one on display at the Barber museum about 2 hours away and I stop in to look at it when I get a chance. amazing bike and the more you look at it the more stuff you see...

good on ya mate.
you can't have too much Super in your life, right?
2015 1290 SD-R- full Akra Evo
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Rrjames
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Re: Building a bellypan/sumpguard for the 1290

Postby Rrjames » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:45 pm

Sorry to drag this thread back from the dead, but I am wondering if you ever considering selling these. My big obstacle in racing the 1290 is the belly pan. It sees plenty of track time but never when the requirements mention a belly pan.

If you are interested in selling one I'd love to hear your price. Its clearly a great product your building.

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