Clutch Slipping

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abc
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Clutch Slipping

Postby abc » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:43 am

I notice over the weekend that my clutch has started slipping under hard acceleration. Usually around 7000rpm with throttle pinned open. Has anyone else had this issue on their bike?
Looks like I am back to the dealer to see what ktm Oz can do about it :cry:
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby ktmguy » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:56 am

Do you use the slipper clutch a lot on down shifts?
I know it's common with slipper clutches as the plates wear faster under racing/ track conditions but shouldn't be on your bike.

Maybe set up wrong initially.
Mine is fine but I haven't got that many km's as your I think.
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby abc » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:25 am

No I havent been thrashing it on the downshifts so that cant be the cause. I have 10,000 Klm's up now.
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby robjederuiter » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:08 am

wrong oil?

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby abc » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:08 am

right oil
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby jmann » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:56 am

Comrade abc: No problems with mine so far. If only we had a register... :lol:

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby fbgracing » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:13 pm

Hi I have had the same problem twice, hard acceleration from 6k as soon as it hits 7500 in 4th 5th and 6th I get it!! really pisses me off.. first time it happened KTM fitted a new clutch after a lot of arguing!! They said nothing wrong,
This cured the problem but not for long. Took it back last week to be told the early ones had the wrong springs in, on investigating mine had the correct springs but they changed them anyway. Done about 200 miles and up to now still OK but I know it is going to do it again!!
My dealer has now told me because I ride it like a race bike on the road and have no mechanical sympathy they wont repair it again under warranty!! I will have to pay!!!
The clutch plates look like knew??? so ime not convinced this is the problem.
Please let me know how you get on. Ime intrigued.
if this keeps happening it will be for sale!!
Regards Trev.

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby Turkishexpress » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:16 pm

fbgracing wrote:Hi I have had the same problem twice, hard acceleration from 6k as soon as it hits 7500 in 4th 5th and 6th I get it!! really pisses me off.. first time it happened KTM fitted a new clutch after a lot of arguing!! They said nothing wrong,
This cured the problem but not for long. Took it back last week to be told the early ones had the wrong springs in, on investigating mine had the correct springs but they changed them anyway. Done about 200 miles and up to now still OK but I know it is going to do it again!!
My dealer has now told me because I ride it like a race bike on the road and have no mechanical sympathy they wont repair it again under warranty!! I will have to pay!!!
The clutch plates look like knew??? so ime not convinced this is the problem.
Please let me know how you get on. Ime intrigued.
if this keeps happening it will be for sale!!
Regards Trev.


That's a load of crap. The clutch shouldn't give you these kinds of issues at that low of a mileage even if it spent most of it's time on the track with Rossi on it.
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby 2014_SDR » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:02 am

abc wrote:I notice over the weekend that my clutch has started slipping under hard acceleration.


Are you sure it’s clutch slip? What are the symptoms you are experiencing, rev’s rise with no drive?

I’ve had this for some time now (4 months) when I took it to the dealer they said the only way they could test it because of the speeds involved was on their dyno. So they strapped it down and tried to get it to happen the way I had described it to them 4th gear 7000rpm and hard acceleration, and nothing.

They then let me go into the dyno room with them to show them 4th gear 7000rpm then 3rd gear 8000rpm hard acceleration to rev limiter, again nothing.

They surmised that because on the dyno the bike was strapped down with the back wheel on a roller with near perfect grip I was probably getting wheel spin rather than clutch slip. And as if to prove the point within 5 miles of the dealer on the ride home I had the same symptoms.

Do you get it happening with the traction control on and off?

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby DMacL » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:10 pm

I have suffered clutch slip too.

First time was a new set of levers not allowing the clutch to fully release - this is the first thing to check - there should be a good bit of free play at the lever with it released.

More recently it's occurred since I fitted the Rottweiler filter; so I've attributed it to the slight increase in power. Plates and frictions are all well in spec and in good condition - no signs of undue wear or hot spots, machining witness markings/patterns still visible. Correct oil in the sump. Hydraulics well bled and operating correctly. Shimming the clutch springs 0.8mm seems to have cured it - only done a couple of hundred miles since then so next job on the list is to open up and check the shims are OK. Springs are a long way off binding with this size shim. ID is 15mm, OD minimum 21mm but can be larger. I made them myself, couldn't find a good source online.

Does anyone have a source for clutch springs with a catalogue to choose from? How does one "size" a clutch spring - they're too stiff to easily measure spring rate unless I jury rig something with a 10kg weight and a DTI.

RC8 and 1190 ADV clutch springs are far different - they use 5. (I have a set of 5 brand new RC8/1190ADV springs available for sale... :lol: )

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby abc » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:47 am

Interesting update DMacL. I am keen to hear how you get on with the shims, let us know how things look next time you have it apart.
Maybe you could throw something it the "how to" thread with a few pics.
I still suspect I have intermitent slip but it is very rare these days so I have left it alone for now but its somewhere on my very long list of things I want to change.
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby crabman » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:36 pm

I've had my clutch slip as well. I have stock levers but decat slip on and Rottweiler intake. It was definitely slipping as I tested it several times and it did it 100% of the time. Didn't matter if the traction control was on or off. I took it to the dealer and they tell me they have no way of testing the clutch because they don't have a dyno and they can't ride the bike in traffic that hard to check. They told me it was the wrong oil, it had Amsoil 20W-50. I really don't care for my dealer so I don't take much of what they say serious but I decided to change the oil and see if that was the problem. I put the 10W-50 Motorex oil in, which cost $72 for 4 liters, and the slipping stopped!! I did not believe it, but I have put over 1000 miles on the bike with this oil and it did not slip. So now I'm very cautious with which oil I use. Still seems hard to believe it was the oil.
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby tripoddave » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:34 pm

My dealer was asking me about this the other day.
I said very occasionally under max acceleration in a high gear it feels a bit like clutch slip but I was putting it down to tyre spin.
I've done my best to recreate it and although you can feel it - the revs appear to only lift a few hundred rpm so it's not bad whatever it is.
On the same stretch of road repeating the experiment I tried sitting back part on the pillion seat - does not do this but is more likely to wheelie.
Not convinced there is an actual problem at least on my bike.
For reference mine has done less than 2,000 miles but does spend an appreciable amount of time with the throttle against the stops.
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby dflowers » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:15 pm

When I had my bike dyno tuned some clutch slippage showed up after 5-6 runs. Very slight right at peak torque. Tuner said it wasn't the wheel slipping because it was strapped down well and he does not see wheel slippage with turbo Busas. Can't feel it on the roads so no worries.

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby DMacL » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:17 am

Won't have chance to strip the clutch out again till I get home from work in August.

In the mean time I've discovered that the 1290 clutch is identical to the RC8R's, except for the springs. Thanks to Schnurrello on the ktmsmt forums.

http://www.rocketcentre.co.uk/ktm-parts ... c136933210 - RC8R diagram

http://www.rocketcentre.co.uk/ktm-parts ... c146133210 - 1290 diagram

69332005000 - RC8R springs. I plan to order a set to try out. Will attempt to determine the difference between them while fitting.

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby ktmguy » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:43 am

I never felt this in my '14 but the new '15 one seems to do it. Felt it while racing a harley of the lights.
Don't laugh, he beat every other bike except me, he was moving! Asked him later and he has an S&S engine in it with heaps of torque.
Happened in 2nd gear and I didn't had my hand on the clutch lever as I shift clutchless.
TC off and in sport mode.

Will keep an eye on it and see what happens after first oil change.
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby DMacL » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:14 am

I'd be worried if you can feel it in second - I'm usually too busy trying to keep the front wheel down! Mostly 4th gear I felt it in, sometimes in third. Failure to pop a wheelie on cracking the throttle in 3rd is a big telltale.

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby crabman » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:23 pm

There is definitely something to the clutch slipping phenomenon. I will be curious to see if the springs make a difference.
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby abc » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:30 am

DMacL I assume the 0.8mm shims didn't solve the problem
I know you won't get back to working on your bike for awhile but I am very interested to hear how the RC8R springs go.
We need to find a way to sort this because as we start making these things go hard the stock clutch won't cope
Although there are quite a few reports of the problem on stock bikes, which shouldn't be the case :(
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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby DMacL » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:54 am

They did seem to improve things based on a quick test ride; I didn't have time for a longer ride as some other issues cropped up (report to follow once resolved; highly unlikely to affect other bikes).

I'm reasonably confident it's just a preload issue for the clutch as all my frictions and steels are in good condition and at roughly the mid point of the recommended thickness range. I'm assuming the slight reduction in stack height plus the increase in power through mods has just crept past the point where the stock springs are man enough; suggesting that KTM have specced too light a spring to start with.
My biggest concern with increasing spring rate is the effect it can have on slipper clutch operation. Have to go easy on banging down the gearbox and late braking (for the road) till I feel my way through it.

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby DMacL » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:05 am

scottyboy wrote:hi guys, has anyone experienced clutch slip on a 1290 ?

the reason im asking is because im sure mine is slipping in 5th and 6th from around 7000rpm to about 9000rpm.

ive had it on a dyno to try and see if the thing im experiencing can be proven, but to my knowledge it didnt:

Image

the bike only has 1800 miles on it, it cant be slipping can it ? ill try and get a video of it over the weekend :?


The clutch can slip and several people seem to be experiencing it. Read the rest of this thread Scottyboy.

Best way to test is 4th or 5th gear, 6000rpm and whack the throttle open. She might wheelie a wee bit in 4th but that's unlikely. You'll know it's clutch slip as the engine revs will rise gradually then quickly then gradually again.

I am working through diagnostic steps with mine at present, shimming the stock springs has worked so far so I'm going to try some RC8R springs which I should receive today or early next week. I suspect that KTM used marginally strong enough clutch springs which we are finding the limits of by increasing the torque output of the bike over stock.

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby scottyboy » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:13 pm

DMacL wrote:The clutch can slip and several people seem to be experiencing it. Read the rest of this thread Scottyboy.

Best way to test is 4th or 5th gear, 6000rpm and whack the throttle open. She might wheelie a wee bit in 4th but that's unlikely. You'll know it's clutch slip as the engine revs will rise gradually then quickly then gradually again.

I am working through diagnostic steps with mine at present, shimming the stock springs has worked so far so I'm going to try some RC8R springs which I should receive today or early next week. I suspect that KTM used marginally strong enough clutch springs which we are finding the limits of by increasing the torque output of the bike over stock.


thanks bud, yeah its defiantly slipping from 6500 to around 9000rpm in 5th and 6th. couldn't get a vid of it today sorry. do you think they put heavier springs in the rc8r ? that would be interesting. its been slipping since ive came back from the isle of man. so going to try to get them to put a new clutch in before shimming the springs at the very least.

on a side note, i dont know if its connected to our clutch problems, but anyone having clutch problems know if the slipper part of the clutch is working ? reason im asking this is because i came down through the box a bit quick at a roundabout earlier, and im sure the back wheel locked up for a couple of tenths of a second. i never experienced a slipper clutch before but i thought it supposed to not do that ? i know my zx10 had one but never felt it work on that.

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby Rrjames » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:06 pm

scottyboy wrote:on a side note, i dont know if its connected to our clutch problems, but anyone having clutch problems know if the slipper part of the clutch is working ? reason im asking this is because i came down through the box a bit quick at a roundabout earlier, and im sure the back wheel locked up for a couple of tenths of a second. i never experienced a slipper clutch before but i thought it supposed to not do that ? i know my zx10 had one but never felt it work on that.


Yeah that's normal, it will "skip" a bit on an aggressive enough decel. your zx would have done the same.

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby DMacL » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:09 pm

I was contemplating asking for a new clutch, which might solve it as the stack height will increase a touch. But then the clutch slip would come back as soon as the stack wore down to the height it is now. It's a piece of piss to pull the clutch apart and measure the plates, if you have a modicum of mechanical ability. I won't do a how-to as it does need mechanical sympathy when trying to get the plates out.

I don't know if the RC8R springs are heavier or longer, I'll do a "scientific" comparison with a weight before fitting them. They are the only part in the clutch that differs between 1290 and RC8R.

Slipper won't slip very well in first - I've had it lock a couple of times when banging down the box a bit too enthusiastically! Clutch slip won't stop the slipper working correctly - it has the same effect on the clutch pack as pulling the clutch lever in.

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Re: Clutch Slipping

Postby ktmguy » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:24 pm

Just as an additional 2 cents...
There are issues with some KTM dirt bikes too in regards to this. To the extend that Slavens in the US has an aftermarket bevel spring available with higher force ( I believe from standard 250Lbs upgraded to 280Lbs).
It seems that KTM chases a happy medium in between easy clutch pull on the lever to just right which in some cases doesn't work out.
I was under the impression mine used to do it but since the 1000km first oil change to motorex it seems gone.
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