Rear rider sag - borderline none?

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chrisRR
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Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby chrisRR » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:20 pm

It's odd. With the minimum preload recommended I'm getting 15mm rider sag in the rear. I'm 220lb with gear so not exactly feather weight. Is the stock shock spring really that heavy?

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RichUK
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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby RichUK » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:01 pm

what static sag are you getting?

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AGRO!
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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby AGRO! » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:45 am

Have you had the bike from new or did you buy second hand?

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby chrisRR » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:17 am

AGRO! wrote:Have you had the bike from new or did you buy second hand?


Yeah I had that thought too. It's used but the bike was very stock apart from an aftermarket exhaust and it appears to be the stock shock spring.

Total rear static sag/rider sag with me on the bike is 25mm as near as we can measure using minimum preload - that's from rear wheel off ground, suspension unloaded and then loaded with me on it. Seems minimal to me. Certainly the preload was cranked waaaay up well past the full load position when I received it.

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby DaveNZ » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:25 am

Thats race bike sag (25mm) Chris, ideally the 1290R performs best around 35mm or a little more sag, possibly the previous rider was 120KG and cranked up the preload, easy fix, just unwind the preload about 3turns, one full turn is about 2-3mm.
2005 640, full system, 18 litre tank, flatside carb. 2010 Black multistrada 1200 Ohlins-with SCU. 2016 1290 GT, Remus muffler and link pipe, Rottweiler plates, and dongles.

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby AGRO! » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:02 am

Like Dave said that is race sag settings.
Did you back the rebound and comp all the way out before checking sag?

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby DribbleDuke » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:37 pm

I think the last two posts the readers may have been preloaded. Go back and read the original post girls/boys
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chrisRR
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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby chrisRR » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:20 pm

Thanks guys, I've set preload to the minimum recommended 5mm. I'll go back and check the number s again. The back of the bike barely moves when I sit unlike a properly setup (road) bike and can't be particularly compressed using both hands and body weight, measurements reflect this so far. Compression settings are currently at comfort.

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RichUK
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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby RichUK » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:33 pm

Is it possible for a shock to fail and give this effect?

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby chrisRR » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:20 am

Maybe, the shock only has 10k km on it though. I backed the compression settings right out, rear goes down a lot easier now but I still get 25mm sag at 5mm preload (that's 5mm from shock spring unloaded).

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby RichUK » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:19 am

Are you still getting the full range of travel?

It's been known for some dirt bike rear suspension units to hit a hard stop mid way down the travel due to a failed rear shock. I'm not sure why, some have said it's a failed seal which allows oil to go where it shouldn't. This is just hearsay though so could be total BS.

If nothing else then you must have an uprated rear spring, or your bathroom scales are out. :mrgreen:

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby DaveNZ » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:06 am

Hey Chris, heres something to try, unwind your preload, back it off until you get say 35mm of rider on bike sag, then measure unladen sag, this will give us some idea if you have a standard spring in your bike. from the factory the 1290 had quite a light weight spring weight, and had what i though was to much rear sag from factory, so something odd is going on with your rear suspension, out of curiosity, what rider on bike sag are you getting from the front, its non adjustable, but it will give us some idea where your bike is at with your weight on it. I'm around 82Kgs with gear on and was getting 39mm front sag, which was spot on for me, so these 1290s are sprung for riders around 80-85Kgs.
2005 640, full system, 18 litre tank, flatside carb. 2010 Black multistrada 1200 Ohlins-with SCU. 2016 1290 GT, Remus muffler and link pipe, Rottweiler plates, and dongles.

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby chrisRR » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:39 pm

RichUK wrote:Are you still getting the full range of travel?

It's been known for some dirt bike rear suspension units to hit a hard stop mid way down the travel due to a failed rear shock. I'm not sure why, some have said it's a failed seal which allows oil to go where it shouldn't. This is just hearsay though so could be total BS.

If nothing else then you must have an uprated rear spring, or your bathroom scales are out. :mrgreen:


Heh, yeah well hopefully it's the bathroom scales....but yes it does almost feel like travel is limited in the rear....maybe that's something to do with the shock playing up or the reason the bike came with the high preload setting it did.

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby chrisRR » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:46 pm

DaveNZ wrote:Hey Chris, heres something to try, unwind your preload, back it off until you get say 35mm of rider on bike sag, then measure unladen sag, this will give us some idea if you have a standard spring in your bike. from the factory the 1290 had quite a light weight spring weight, and had what i though was to much rear sag from factory, so something odd is going on with your rear suspension, out of curiosity, what rider on bike sag are you getting from the front, its non adjustable, but it will give us some idea where your bike is at with your weight on it. I'm around 82Kgs with gear on and was getting 39mm front sag, which was spot on for me, so these 1290s are sprung for riders around 80-85Kgs.

Hi Dave, yeah I can't get 35mm of rider sag for any preload setting (unless I back the preload collar off beyond where the spring is unloaded and free to move vertically/rotate on the shock with the swing arm unloaded). Unladen sag at minimum preload is basically zero.

I'll check the front though that feels like it has normal sag/travel, not overly firm or high spring rates. I'm going to get some cable ties on there.

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby DaveNZ » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:08 am

^^ that weird Chris, sounds like the shock is fuked mate, may need stripping and rebuilding, good luck with it.
2005 640, full system, 18 litre tank, flatside carb. 2010 Black multistrada 1200 Ohlins-with SCU. 2016 1290 GT, Remus muffler and link pipe, Rottweiler plates, and dongles.

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RichUK
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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby RichUK » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:53 am

I guess you need to pull the shock, take the spring off and see if the damper can be moved through its full range. If not it's rebuild time.

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby DaveNZ » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:12 pm

Chris, i hear they make a nice Ohlins TTX shock for the 1290R, thats the way id go, and not waste any money on the standard one.
2005 640, full system, 18 litre tank, flatside carb. 2010 Black multistrada 1200 Ohlins-with SCU. 2016 1290 GT, Remus muffler and link pipe, Rottweiler plates, and dongles.

chrisRR
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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby chrisRR » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:37 pm

Yeah, it's strange...I'll get it sorted one way or the other. The TTX is nice for sure but a bit spendy. I'm having a cast around to see if there are any other compatible shocks which can be swapped in.

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby AGRO! » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:56 pm

KTM and other manufacturers should be forced to give a 5 year warranty on their bikes in doing so they would make sure They use top notch equipment on their machines.
Sorry but It just seems that to many bike manufacturers are cost cutting and asking big money.
If you Compare a car with a motorcycle, Motorcycles seem to have a lot of problems these days and if you factor in the miles a car does over a bike it just points to there is a problem with the motorcycle industry.

chrisRR
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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby chrisRR » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:06 pm

Well yeah, 1-2 year 'warranty' on a vehicle which should last a lifetime with proper care seems poor. 5 years would make more sense.

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby DaveNZ » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:38 pm

Hey Chris, theres a guy in New Plymouth that does suspension rebuilding, Robert Taylor, Crown Kiwi, i think he's called, he's the guru on Ohlins and Nitron, and does most of the race stuff, he also has a shock dyno, and forks dyno, so he would get to the bottom of your problem real quick.
2005 640, full system, 18 litre tank, flatside carb. 2010 Black multistrada 1200 Ohlins-with SCU. 2016 1290 GT, Remus muffler and link pipe, Rottweiler plates, and dongles.

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby Freude am Fahren » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:57 pm

That's one reason I almost bought a S1000R over the KTM. Even though it was used, it still had over two years worth of warranty left, because BMW gives a 3 year/36k mile warranty on every bike, and it's attached to the bike, not the owner. (This bike was also only $10k with 700 miles on it, ex dealer-demo. Way better value than the SDR, but I'm glad I went the stay broke way:) )

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby chrisRR » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:48 am

DaveNZ wrote:Hey Chris, theres a guy in New Plymouth that does suspension rebuilding, Robert Taylor, Crown Kiwi, i think he's called, he's the guru on Ohlins and Nitron, and does most of the race stuff, he also has a shock dyno, and forks dyno, so he would get to the bottom of your problem real quick.

Cool, yeah I've heard of him. I'll go that way if I can't sort it satisfactorily. Cheers David.

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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby DaveNZ » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:21 am

Hey Chris, theres a shock on Ebay motors for 1290R, its in Italy for $465 plus postage.
2005 640, full system, 18 litre tank, flatside carb. 2010 Black multistrada 1200 Ohlins-with SCU. 2016 1290 GT, Remus muffler and link pipe, Rottweiler plates, and dongles.

chrisRR
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Re: Rear rider sag - borderline none?

Postby chrisRR » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:46 am

Yeah I see a few used factory shocks on there. I'll probably just do a rebuild as necessary as I have most of the gear.

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