Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

problems . solutions . product reviews . tips
Bigpumpkin
Minimoto racer
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:19 am

Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Bigpumpkin » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:27 pm

I have a 2007 SD that has been sitting for the past year and a half. Finally got my act together and changed the oil, put in a new battery, replaced the oil sight tube, did a radiator flush, and installed a tail tidy with new indicators. I took the bike out for a very short initial run and everything seemed to be sorted even if a bit rough.

The next day I rode to have the inspection done and was able to flick up and down through the gearing with no issues. The bike never went over 60 mph and for the most part was stuck in stop and go traffic. I noticed the bike really running hot and attributed it to the traffic and the fact that it was nearing 100 degrees yesterday. As I slowed (using brake and clutch) to take a right hand turn into the inspection center I heard a squealing noise and realised the back wheel had seized and the electrics were dead. I pulled in the clutch as soon as I felt it lock and managed to get just off the road. I put the bike in neutral but nothing doing. After about 5 min I was able to start the engine again and the bike clicked into gear no problem and I proceeded to have things inspected. On the way home after 10 minutes of very careful/slow riding, the bike did the same thing again. Loss of everything, back wheel locked, unable to move in neutral. After 5 min it started right back up and I proceeded home (another 10 min away).

I've checked battery connections, cleaned all connections around the battery and checked the BGC. Bike runs fine at idle but I have yet to take it out again. Really glad these issues didn't happen at high speed on a freeway. Now a bit gun shy about taking her out again until I get things sorted.

Any suggestions? I'm at a loss.

User avatar
No. 47
Master of the twisties
 
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:14 pm
Location: London and Kent

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby No. 47 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:37 pm

Two questions first:

- did electrics take 5 mins to come back and, if so,

- are you sure bike was in neutral given no working neutral light?
'08 ex-Battle race KTM Superduke 990 R No.47
'08 OE KTM Superduke 990 R
'01 Ducati 996S

Bigpumpkin
Minimoto racer
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:19 am

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Bigpumpkin » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:30 pm

Good points:

-The electrics did indeed take approximately 5 minutes to come back on
-When the electrics come on I am able to see the green neutral light but wheel still seized. If I am remembering correctly I then restarted bike, all electrics came back on and wheel was then able to spin freely.

I forgot to mention that I do have a power commander fitted with Graves exhausts. Could a faulty power commander cause something this dramatic?

Thanks for your response....

User avatar
Aphex
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1861
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:08 pm
Location: So Cal

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Aphex » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:51 pm

Bigpumpkin wrote:Good points:

-The electrics did indeed take approximately 5 minutes to come back on
-When the electrics come on I am able to see the green neutral light but wheel still seized. If I am remembering correctly I then restarted bike, all electrics came back on and wheel was then able to spin freely.

I forgot to mention that I do have a power commander fitted with Graves exhausts. Could a faulty power commander cause something this dramatic?

Thanks for your response....


It could.

If you have a Tune ECU cable you could unplug the PC and load up an appropriate map if you also have an aftermarket intake. If you just have the pipes then you should be fine to run the stock map for testing purposes.
08 SD, Mivv Suono, Rottweiler airbox. Current map: One some guy sent me from the internet.

Me so Hoony.

Bigpumpkin
Minimoto racer
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:19 am

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Bigpumpkin » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:09 am

I'll have to order a cable. From what I remember I'm running an Akrapovic map that was suggested by the guys at Graves. Thanks for your input.

User avatar
Aphex
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1861
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:08 pm
Location: So Cal

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Aphex » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:19 am

Bigpumpkin wrote:I'll have to order a cable. From what I remember I'm running an Akrapovic map that was suggested by the guys at Graves. Thanks for your input.


What's your location?

If you're in So Cal you can use mine.
08 SD, Mivv Suono, Rottweiler airbox. Current map: One some guy sent me from the internet.

Me so Hoony.

User avatar
No. 47
Master of the twisties
 
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:14 pm
Location: London and Kent

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby No. 47 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:25 am

Can't see connection between failed electrics and locked rear wheel though.

Is rear caliper overheating and locking up?
'08 ex-Battle race KTM Superduke 990 R No.47
'08 OE KTM Superduke 990 R
'01 Ducati 996S

User avatar
Scotty
Two wheeled terror
 
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 12:47 pm
Location: South Lincs Badlands (UK)

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Scotty » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:54 am

No. 47 wrote:Can't see connection between failed electrics and locked rear wheel though.

Is rear caliper overheating and locking up?

A very valid suggestion - if it happens again, try testing the rear brake disc temperature, but don't touch it unless you like the idea of having your fingers welded to it :shock: splashing a bit of water onto it will give an indication of its temperature (or spitting on it if you have no other water available).
The simultaneous loss of electrical power is puzzling though, especially as you've checked terminals and the BGC...
Wheelies - they ARE big, and they ARE clever....

User avatar
RichUK
Two wheeled terror
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:46 pm

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby RichUK » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:07 am

Is it possible for the bike to indicate neutral when it isn't quite in neutral?

I'm just wondering if starting the engine is enough to give the gearbox a little kick the fully disengage, similar to how you have to rock the bike back and forth to move through the gears if the engine isn't running.

If so this would account for the appearance or there being a connection between the loss of power and being stuck in gear, which I believe is a red herring as there is no connection between the two.

Bigpumpkin
Minimoto racer
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:19 am

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Bigpumpkin » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:05 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions! I just returned from an hour long ride and hit everything from wide open road to no small amount of stop and go traffic in town. A teenage girl texting whilst driving pulled out in front of me, a sawdust truck blew its contents all over me, I hit construction zones with corrugated surfaces, I sat idling for ever at lights...in short, a standard day of riding in town. I really hammered the rear brake trying to get it to seize, I aggressively down shifted, all in hopes of replicating the issues experienced the other day. Absolutely nothing doing. Bike appears to run perfectly and I remembered how much fun it is to ride. Despite the heat, my temperature stayed fairly normal, with one exception at a rather long traffic light. I did notice a bit of softness in the rear brake towards the end of my ride accompanied by some minor squealing when I really stood on it.

The only variable missing from the other days ride (which I neglected to mention in an earlier post) was that I didn't have a passenger with me today. The other day my son wanted to go with me and he's a big lad at 190. Not sure of the impact this would have but it's the only variable missing.

I certainly appreciate everyone's input. This forum never fails to impress.

User avatar
orangeracer
Minimoto racer
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: Sunny FLA

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby orangeracer » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:06 pm

I wonder if it's more clutch related... you did mention stop and go traffic and a "squealing" noise. Constant clutching would also make the oil hot and therefore the engine hot as well.The electrics do sound like a red herring, but if everything was really overheated it may have lost a connection, or perhaps the ECU shuts it down after a point.

User avatar
orangeracer
Minimoto racer
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: Sunny FLA

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby orangeracer » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:11 pm

Looks like we simu-posted lol. If your kid was sitting on the back that totally could have chewed up the clutch more. Might be worth getting a spare case gasket and having a look inside...

User avatar
Scotty
Two wheeled terror
 
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 12:47 pm
Location: South Lincs Badlands (UK)

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Scotty » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:52 am

Another thought - could it be kill switch-related? That would explain the engine stopping and apparent lack of all electrical function, and when the switch is "off" there are no outputs from instruments or warning lights....
Wheelies - they ARE big, and they ARE clever....

User avatar
RichUK
Two wheeled terror
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:46 pm

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby RichUK » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:52 am

Yeh, good suggestion.

Bigpumpkin wrote:On the way home after 10 minutes of very careful/slow riding, the bike did the same thing again. Loss of everything, back wheel locked, unable to move in neutral.


OP - does the above mean unable to move when in neutral or unable to put the gearbox into neutral?

Bigpumpkin
Minimoto racer
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:19 am

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Bigpumpkin » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:50 pm

When the incident(s) occurred, I was able to click through the gears but the rear wheel remained "seized" for approx 5 min each time. I took the bike on several short rides over the weekend with no issues occurring. The issue still lurking in the back of my mind so I haven't really caned the bike or gone off on any considerable distance or speed. I'm going to have a look at the side stand sensor this week and see if anything looks amiss. The bike still running hot but I attribute this to incorrect bleeding of the cooling system. I plan on re-purging this week...thanks for everyone's help on this. It's not just a niggling problem it's a potentially dangerous one so I'd really like to figure out the root cause. Cheers..

Droldaerd
Minimoto racer
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Droldaerd » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:59 pm

Bigpumpkin wrote:When the incident(s) occurred, I was able to click through the gears but the rear wheel remained "seized" for approx 5 min each time. I took the bike on several short rides over the weekend with no issues occurring. The issue still lurking in the back of my mind so I haven't really caned the bike or gone off on any considerable distance or speed. I'm going to have a look at the side stand sensor this week and see if anything looks amiss. The bike still running hot but I attribute this to incorrect bleeding of the cooling system. I plan on re-purging this week...thanks for everyone's help on this. It's not just a niggling problem it's a potentially dangerous one so I'd really like to figure out the root cause. Cheers..


For no reason should the rear wheel lock in neutral if the gearbox is functioning properly. I'd reckon you're in for a trans repair. As a last resort I'd check your final drive system to ensure nothing is getting in the way to lock it up

Bigpumpkin
Minimoto racer
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:19 am

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Bigpumpkin » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:58 am

Thanks for the info. I went on a 6 hour ride up to the mountains this past weekend and the bike really didn't miss a beat. I did notice towards the end of the ride that the shifting felt a bit "agricultural". I have a Guzzi V11S and the shifting now feels similar. I'm going to dig into the gearbox and see what I can find. At this point it would seem to be the only thing it could be. Can't believe I've had this bike for 10 years and it still manages to put a massive smile on my face (as well as turn heads). The longest ever kept a bike and can't see it leaving me anytime soon!

User avatar
Aphex
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1861
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:08 pm
Location: So Cal

Re: Loss of electrics and rear wheel seized

Postby Aphex » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:14 pm

Bigpumpkin wrote:Thanks for the info. I went on a 6 hour ride up to the mountains this past weekend and the bike really didn't miss a beat. I did notice towards the end of the ride that the shifting felt a bit "agricultural". I have a Guzzi V11S and the shifting now feels similar. I'm going to dig into the gearbox and see what I can find. At this point it would seem to be the only thing it could be. Can't believe I've had this bike for 10 years and it still manages to put a massive smile on my face (as well as turn heads). The longest ever kept a bike and can't see it leaving me anytime soon!



from what I remember here and from what Klinck said a couple years back. The gear boxes are pretty damn bullet proof on these and I don't think many have been in the shop for transmission work.

I notice my shifting get very notchy or even some times down right hard when it's just about time for an oil change. Within 20 miles of fresh oil it goes back to being buttery smooth again.
08 SD, Mivv Suono, Rottweiler airbox. Current map: One some guy sent me from the internet.

Me so Hoony.


Return to Technical - Dr F's Words of Wisdom

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron