Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

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McDuder
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Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:43 am

It's an American bike, if that matters.

If the bike sits a while, it takes 7 tries to get it started.It does this consistently. This is beyond the BGC, loose grounds, valves, plugs, the normal symptoms. It's done this for years. It always starts. But it just takes so many tries.

I have a 1 year old Shorai, that cranks the engine fast. The Yasusa that I used to have was worse. There is a faint smell of raw gas coming from the tail pipe after a few tries.

It's like the ECU isn't giving the signal to send spark to the plugs. On the 7 th try, I touch the starter, and it runs perfectly. FMF mufflers, Akro map, are the only mods, and I've done the 15 min idle reset.

And good advice is much appreciated. Like I said problem is way beyond the basics.

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby DribbleDuke » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:49 am

This may be a stupid question. Do you touch the throttle before or during start up?
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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:59 am

No throttle what so ever.

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby No. 47 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:32 am

Check/swop out crank position sensor.
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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:55 pm

47, Please don't think I'm arguing with you, But could you please elaborate?

Thank You.

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby No. 47 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:47 pm

If getting fuel but no spark initially, crank position sensor (pulse generator) - #1 here https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/view/60039034100 - would be first thing I would check/swop out - pages 7-39 and 7- 48 of the rebuild manual.

If not that, I'd start looking at the ignition wiring diagrams and checking out all the diodes and relays on the ignition side.
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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:33 am

Pulse Generator is out of stock.

Is there a history of pulse generators going bad?

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby DribbleDuke » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:18 am

McDuder wrote:Pulse Generator is out of stock.

Is there a history of pulse generators going bad?

There has been little talk of bad pulse generators on this forum. I would be inclined to look somewhere else first. When they fail it is usually complete failure and from my very limited experience fail when hot. I wonder if you have tried cycling the start up procedure and letting the fuel pump do a second round of regeneration (pump up) before pushing the gogo button. You say this hard starting happens after the bike has been sitting a while and after it runs it runs fine. I wonder if the fuel is getting a good push into the throttle bodies. I would love to see if it would start if the pump cycled a few times prior to ignition. That may tell you if it was fuel or spark related.
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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby No. 47 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:47 am

Does this happen only at first start up after it’s been sitting for a while or every time at start up?
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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby No. 47 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:32 pm

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26666&p=326457&hilit=Turning+over+but+not+starting#p326457 ?

May be Shorai is taking a while to ‘warm up’ and deliver enough power to spark up as per Bic’s and other’s problems with Shorai? But then, it presumably did same with the Yuasa?

Might be worth investing in new Yuasa (from Honda dealer).
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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:29 pm

Thanks, guys. But I've tried the multiple fuel pump primes.

The Shorai is always close to the Battery Tender. I have several Shorais. Had em for years, now. I know what you mean when you say they need to warm up. That's not it. Had a Yasaua. Just as bad or worse.

I've ran heavier cables from the battery to the solenoid, to the starter. That seemed to help for a while.

It's usually hard to start after it has sat several days. I have 2 990 SDs. The other one fires up after about 2.5 seconds on the starter, no matter how long it has been parked.

This morning, I took the tank, then the ECU off the Good bike, and put it on the Stinker. No luck. Still took 7 tries.

This has been going on to varying degrees ever since I got the thing in 2010. The shop that I bought it from hasn't been able to pin it down, either.

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby No. 47 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:58 pm

But does it always take 7ish tries before it fires up ot is it just the first one after being laid up for a while?
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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:11 pm

Normally, if I ride it the next day or 2, it starts right up.

It's only when it sets for several, or more days, it's hard to start. I think it punishes me for neglecting it.

And yes, I've tried opening the gas cap. I run no ethanol gas. Sometimes, Redline FI Cleaner.

The FI light will come on, while cranking, sometimes.

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby No. 47 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:38 am

Ok - still think I would start with putting in a new Yuasa but could remove plugs, reconnect to coils, earth plugs by laying on/against engine casing/frame and checking for spark at first start attempts after lay up.
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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:19 pm

47, I think you're right on, reguarding the spark plug procedure.

I've had such good luck with Shorai batteries, that I'm reluctant to swap that out. But I do understand your point. If it came out of the factory with a Y, it would stand to reason to put one back in.


A little background on the bike: It is an 08 model, that I bought from a dealership in Lafayette Indiana. Spykes KTM. The previous owner was a 20 something young man, who traded "my bike" in for an RC8. That was a decision that he later told me on the phone, was a mistake. He wished he had the SD back. I bought the bike in November of 09.
The bike had the Gear Position Sensor recall done. Also, somewhere along the line, the Previous Owner parked it, and it had gotten knocked over by some lady, who backed into it. It had been repaired to the best of their knowledge. A year or so later, I replaced one of the front brake rotors, because it was no longer "true".
However, shortly after I got the bike, in November of 09, it failed to do anything when I hit the starter button. The bike was still under warranty. So back to the shop it went. Spykes KTM replaced the main wiring harness. The bike was then as it is now. Hard to start. No one in the little hick town that I am from knew anything about KTMs. KTMs were generally held in contempt. And I was told: That just the way they are. The original battery was over 2 years old by the next spring, 2010. The Shorai went in. The Shorai didn't really help it fire any sooner. But the additional cranking power helped.

Trueth be told, if I was honest with myself is: This bike has been a Knocked down, Taken apart, Reassembled Lemon from day one. But once it starts, it runs perfectly. It makes me laugh every time I ride it. It suits me perfectly. And I forgive it for being a stubborn mule to get started.

I've told myself, that if I can get this thing cured, that I'm going to splurge on a Rottweiler filter system, and get rid of all the pollution plumbing.

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby No. 47 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:17 pm

Did previous owner have the same start up problem?
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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:27 pm

I cannot accurately answer that.

To be honest, I don't know if the bike was stubborn to start before the shop replaced the main wiring harness or not.

And I will bet that you, like me, are somewhat suspect of the replacement wiring harness.

I think I can get the the rear plug fairly easily, even with the factory air box in place. I have a few thing that I have to do today. But I'm going to try to pull the rear plug, and do the Spark Test.

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:08 pm

It's not getting spark. And it's not the ECU, because it does the same thing with the other bike's ECU. Which it must mean, that the problem lies between the ECU and the spark plugs.

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:13 am

I also managed to break the male end of the quick release (fuel line). I ordered a metal one $47. It happens....

It has plenty of fuel pressure. Squirted gasoline 5 feet, I'll bet.

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby No. 47 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:07 am

So, all good from purchase until wiring harness replaced after bike refused to start at all (even after seven attempts?) but has had this problem ever since?

Again, I'm no electrician but suggest checking the pulse generator including the connector over the reg/rec and then the various diodes (particularly one in headlamp unit) and relays linked to the ignition system as per rebuild manual and wiring diagram(s).
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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:39 pm

If I'm lucky, it'll be something easy, like the relay. If not the relay, it gets a lot tougher.

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:23 pm

Well Everyone, I regret to inform you that I have in effect give up. But fear not. I went against my nature and took it to a shop, and am going to PAY someone else to work on my motorcycle. I've been aggravated by this gremlin long enough.

I am very fortunate to have a really good guy, not too far away, in Louisville Ky.

Now for the bonus, if it all works out. If and when he can cure my electrical gremlin, which I'm confident he will, I've requested that he put on a Rottweiler Intake, and remove all the excess plumbing. He'll then Dyno Tune it.

Stay tuned.....

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby No. 47 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:55 pm

Did you try a new Yuasa?
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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:19 am

No

Well, yes, I guess I did. Before the Shorai, it had a Yasaua

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Re: Hard to start 08 990 Not typical.

Postby McDuder » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:44 am

I received a call from the mechanic. The bike had numerous little things wrong with it. Vacuume leak, throttle bodies out of sync, canister delete was not assembled correctly, something with the ECU.

He's going to order the Rottweiler intake. He's going to delete all excess plumbing. Then Dyno Tune it. I told him This thing has probably not been right since it left Mattagoffen.

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